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>Last week we made an important decision for our community. We removed a moderator for repeatedly violating our existing Code of Conduct and being unwilling to

>Last week we made an important decision for our community. We removed a moderator for repeatedly violating our existing Code of Conduct and being unwilling to accept our CM’s repeated requests to change their behavior. Hang on a sec... >their behaviour. Wasn't monica fired for suggesting she used gender neutral pronouns generally? Because they said she should use the preferred gender specific pronoun when known? And now "Sara Chipps" is doing exactly that?!

kichik 7y ago
They listened and changed it to > that behavior
- kichik 7y ago
  Oh it's actually worse than that. The original said: > the behavior Some user named Tim changed it to "their". Full history @ https://meta.stackexchange.com/posts/334248/revisions https://meta.stackexchange.com/posts/334248/revisions Why would they let random people edit such a post? So weird...
  - etchalon 7y ago
    That random person probably had the permission level to edit posts. That’s how SO works.
MauranKilom 7y ago
>Wasn't monica fired for suggesting she used gender neutral pronouns generally? It's more nuanced from what I understand^. I gather that Monica expressed the desire to find an alternative to using singular they - such as universally using pronoun-free language. Mind you, this was all in discussing a future code of conduct change and its eventual enforcement. The topic is just very delicate, and in my eyes there is no line that you can draw where both sides are univerally happy. Words spoken/written with the best intentions and utmost respect can still leave others feel hurt or insulted, simply because there are no objective answers to certain differences in perception. ^I am not privy to "insider" info, but I have followed the situation closely and consumed most of what has been said on the metas publicly (outside of chat rooms).
- flippinburgers 7y ago
  As I understand it she wanted to avoid using any specifically gendered pronoun and be general in her responses, but was told that she must use the preferred pronoun. Totally draconian if you ask me.
  - Causality1 7y ago
    That's incredible if true. I've never cared about often being misgendered on the internet. I've also never cared what gender a stranger on the internet is. If I know their gender I might use it but I could also easily forget what they are or mix them up with someone else. Nor do I care if someone mistakes what country I'm from or what political party I vote for. These facts are immutable and no number of mistaken netizens can change them.
    - flippinburgers 7y ago
      What is even more interesting is that this happened because of a CoC that is not even yet in place.
  - keanzu 7y ago
    Sounds like compelled speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compelled_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compelled_speech
jodrellblank 7y ago
> Wasn't monica fired for suggesting she used gender neutral pronouns generally? In the comments to the linked question, Monica Cellio says StackOverflow have not told her what parts of the CoC she was violating. I don't think it's public knowledge why she was demodded. (Is 'fired' an appropriate word to use, when Monica wasn't an employee?)
- detaro 7y ago
  The most direct statement seems to be from https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/01/stack_exchange_controversy/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/01/stack_exchange_cont... > Asked to confirm that Cellio was the moderator in question, a company spokesperson said, "Cellio (she/her) would not use stated pronouns, which violates our current CoC …
  - lesstenseflow 7y ago
    Also from that article: > Cellio, for what it's worth, does not include any preferred pronouns on her Twitter account. Yet, when they refer to her, Stack Exchange puts pronouns next to her name, clearly against her own “preferences.” It’s like they’re literally forcing onto her an ideology or worldview which they know she does not share. What bizarre, hypocritical, vindictive behavior from Stack Exchange.
- matheusmoreira 7y ago
  > (Is 'fired' an appropriate word to use, when Monica wasn't an employee?) Ben Noordhuis wasn't an employee of Joyent either but that didn't stop them from symbolically firing him: > While we would fire Ben over this, node.js is an open source project and one doesn't necessarily have the same levers. https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun
goatinaboat 7y ago
we made an important decision for our community It’s interesting that “we”, “our” and “community” in that quote all don’t mean what they seem. “We” are the farmers and “community” are the sheep, is what she means.
anon12345690 7y ago
welcome to clown world! lol this is what happens when you let crazy outraged people take over. the rules dont make sense. they just want to control people

kichik 7y ago

They listened and changed it to > that behavior

kichik 7y ago
Oh it's actually worse than that. The original said: > the behavior Some user named Tim changed it to "their". Full history @ https://meta.stackexchange.com/posts/334248/revisions https://meta.stackexchange.com/posts/334248/revisions Why would they let random people edit such a post? So weird...
- etchalon 7y ago
  That random person probably had the permission level to edit posts. That’s how SO works.

MauranKilom 7y ago

>Wasn't monica fired for suggesting she used gender neutral pronouns generally? It's more nuanced from what I understand^. I gather that Monica expressed the desire to find an alternative to using singular they - such as universally using pronoun-free language. Mind you, this was all in discussing a future code of conduct change and its eventual enforcement. The topic is just very delicate, and in my eyes there is no line that you can draw where both sides are univerally happy. Words spoken/written with the best intentions and utmost respect can still leave others feel hurt or insulted, simply because there are no objective answers to certain differences in perception. ^I am not privy to "insider" info, but I have followed the situation closely and consumed most of what has been said on the metas publicly (outside of chat rooms).

flippinburgers 7y ago
As I understand it she wanted to avoid using any specifically gendered pronoun and be general in her responses, but was told that she must use the preferred pronoun. Totally draconian if you ask me.
- Causality1 7y ago
  That's incredible if true. I've never cared about often being misgendered on the internet. I've also never cared what gender a stranger on the internet is. If I know their gender I might use it but I could also easily forget what they are or mix them up with someone else. Nor do I care if someone mistakes what country I'm from or what political party I vote for. These facts are immutable and no number of mistaken netizens can change them.
  - flippinburgers 7y ago
    What is even more interesting is that this happened because of a CoC that is not even yet in place.
- keanzu 7y ago
  Sounds like compelled speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compelled_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compelled_speech

jodrellblank 7y ago

> Wasn't monica fired for suggesting she used gender neutral pronouns generally? In the comments to the linked question, Monica Cellio says StackOverflow have not told her what parts of the CoC she was violating. I don't think it's public knowledge why she was demodded. (Is 'fired' an appropriate word to use, when Monica wasn't an employee?)

detaro 7y ago
The most direct statement seems to be from https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/01/stack_exchange_controversy/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/01/stack_exchange_cont... > Asked to confirm that Cellio was the moderator in question, a company spokesperson said, "Cellio (she/her) would not use stated pronouns, which violates our current CoC …
- lesstenseflow 7y ago
  Also from that article: > Cellio, for what it's worth, does not include any preferred pronouns on her Twitter account. Yet, when they refer to her, Stack Exchange puts pronouns next to her name, clearly against her own “preferences.” It’s like they’re literally forcing onto her an ideology or worldview which they know she does not share. What bizarre, hypocritical, vindictive behavior from Stack Exchange.
matheusmoreira 7y ago
> (Is 'fired' an appropriate word to use, when Monica wasn't an employee?) Ben Noordhuis wasn't an employee of Joyent either but that didn't stop them from symbolically firing him: > While we would fire Ben over this, node.js is an open source project and one doesn't necessarily have the same levers. https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun

goatinaboat 7y ago

we made an important decision for our community It’s interesting that “we”, “our” and “community” in that quote all don’t mean what they seem. “We” are the farmers and “community” are the sheep, is what she means.

anon12345690 7y ago

welcome to clown world! lol this is what happens when you let crazy outraged people take over. the rules dont make sense. they just want to control people