4 ms·

ideally there Is a trade off between staying private to have more control and hopefully make better decisions that aren’t quarterly-focused, vs having more capi

by zwkrt 7y ago

ideally there Is a trade off between staying private to have more control and hopefully make better decisions that aren’t quarterly-focused, vs having more capital. In practice it seems like a game of “how long can we get away with cutting corners until we are big enough that going public won’t ruin us entirely”

mikeg8 7y ago
I agree, but think its a shame the game has become so common place in this era. Hopeful that we’ll see more players emerge who are focused on a strategy of sustainability and ethics.
- Ygg2 7y ago
  Pretty sure capitalism and ethics are mutually exclusive. Capitalism at its core runs on infinite greed.
  - mikeg8 7y ago
    There is no law making those mutually exclusive. And the infinite greed isn’t “capitalism” in an of itself, it is human nature that is the root cause. IMO we are at a point in time where we need more high-profile examples of capitalists who are not motivated by greed. And I’d argue there are a million small and medium sized businesses, run by capitalists, who operate in ethically and beneficial manner.
    - Ygg2 7y ago
      And capitalism is built on exploiting that same human nature. Even if individual capitalist isn't motivated by greed, the market itself is. It's literally built on presumption of infinite growth. Small and medium sized business, are more like a stage in lifecycle than an exemplar. They either get merged or sold into a larger entity or they grow to become a larger entity.
      - icelancer 7y ago
        >> It's literally built on presumption of infinite growth There is nothing inherent to capitalism that presumes this.
      - mikeg8 7y ago
        >> Small and medium sized business, are more like a stage in lifecycle than an exemplar. They either get merged or sold into a larger entity or they grow to become a larger entity. Totally inaccurate. Having trouble finding sources but something like 99% of small business in US will remain under $5mil annual revenue, a fraction of a percent will be acquired. I'm talking all sectors, not tech.
    - DollarGuru 7y ago
      It's worth considering that it is human nature but in the context of the society it is based in. The boundaries of human nature in regards to capitalism are very different across societies/ nations. An example of this is the difference between the US and Europe. US capitalism is much more unrestrained, ruthless, and uncaring compare to Europe. In the US the business is treated in higher regard and respect than the people compared to Europe. Of course Europe does this to some extent but it is more limited than the US. The US would do well to take a leaf out of Europe's book.
      - vonmoltke 7y ago
        > In the US the business is treated in higher regard and respect than the people compared to Europe. I don't understand what this means. What "people" are you referring to? What is the context for "higher regard"?
        DollarGuru 7y ago
        People as in the average citizens. Higher regard being that the business has less control over the benefits of your life in Europe compare to the US. Good affordable healthcare is standard many European countries. In the US it depends on your employer. Minimum holiday entitlement in Europe is far more generous that in the US where again it is down to the business. Maternity and paternity leave is better in Europe. In the US it depends on the business and your position in the comapny whether you get reasonable leave. Unemployment benefits are more humane in many European countries. I have heard that in the US they will contact your last employer and whether you get unemployment benefits depends on what the employer says. While there are some limits in this regard in Europe your Ex employer's word doesn't hold as much weight. I'm sure there are more examples I could come up with as well. A small minority live fantastic lives in the US because the US has taken the idea of meritocracy and dialled it up to 11. The floor of the have-nots is much lower in the US in comparison to Europe because businesses have a wider degree of discretion in how they treat and reward employees. The person on the shop floor gets 1 week a year holiday while the regional manager gets 5 weeks a year. Of course businesses in Europe have some discretion in the upper limits to the benefits they offer their employees but they are still restraint in the lower limits. These differences I suspect are exactly why the GDP per capita is lower in European countries than in the US. Take Germany for example, an economic powerhouse and the 3rd largest global exporter. Impressive for a nation of just 83 million. The US has a PPP GDP per capita about $10,000 higher than Germany I find it very difficult to believe the US is $10,000 more productive than Germany. The US just puts more value in wealth creation (business) at the expense of the people. Europe has it's flaws in some of these things as well (e.g zero hour contracts) however it does better by the people more so than the US.
    - dkersten 7y ago
      > And the infinite greed isn’t “capitalism” in an of itself True, but the problems with communism aren't communism in and of itself either, but the reality is that these things incentivize certain types of behavior nonetheless.
  - rdlecler1 7y ago
    Take away capitalism and we’re all famished peasants in the best case scenario.

by zwkrt 7y ago

mikeg8 7y ago

I agree, but think its a shame the game has become so common place in this era. Hopeful that we’ll see more players emerge who are focused on a strategy of sustainability and ethics.

Ygg2 7y ago
Pretty sure capitalism and ethics are mutually exclusive. Capitalism at its core runs on infinite greed.
- mikeg8 7y ago
  There is no law making those mutually exclusive. And the infinite greed isn’t “capitalism” in an of itself, it is human nature that is the root cause. IMO we are at a point in time where we need more high-profile examples of capitalists who are not motivated by greed. And I’d argue there are a million small and medium sized businesses, run by capitalists, who operate in ethically and beneficial manner.
  - Ygg2 7y ago
    And capitalism is built on exploiting that same human nature. Even if individual capitalist isn't motivated by greed, the market itself is. It's literally built on presumption of infinite growth. Small and medium sized business, are more like a stage in lifecycle than an exemplar. They either get merged or sold into a larger entity or they grow to become a larger entity.
    - icelancer 7y ago
      >> It's literally built on presumption of infinite growth There is nothing inherent to capitalism that presumes this.
    - mikeg8 7y ago
      >> Small and medium sized business, are more like a stage in lifecycle than an exemplar. They either get merged or sold into a larger entity or they grow to become a larger entity. Totally inaccurate. Having trouble finding sources but something like 99% of small business in US will remain under $5mil annual revenue, a fraction of a percent will be acquired. I'm talking all sectors, not tech.
  - DollarGuru 7y ago
    It's worth considering that it is human nature but in the context of the society it is based in. The boundaries of human nature in regards to capitalism are very different across societies/ nations. An example of this is the difference between the US and Europe. US capitalism is much more unrestrained, ruthless, and uncaring compare to Europe. In the US the business is treated in higher regard and respect than the people compared to Europe. Of course Europe does this to some extent but it is more limited than the US. The US would do well to take a leaf out of Europe's book.
    - vonmoltke 7y ago
      > In the US the business is treated in higher regard and respect than the people compared to Europe. I don't understand what this means. What "people" are you referring to? What is the context for "higher regard"?
      - DollarGuru 7y ago
        People as in the average citizens. Higher regard being that the business has less control over the benefits of your life in Europe compare to the US. Good affordable healthcare is standard many European countries. In the US it depends on your employer. Minimum holiday entitlement in Europe is far more generous that in the US where again it is down to the business. Maternity and paternity leave is better in Europe. In the US it depends on the business and your position in the comapny whether you get reasonable leave. Unemployment benefits are more humane in many European countries. I have heard that in the US they will contact your last employer and whether you get unemployment benefits depends on what the employer says. While there are some limits in this regard in Europe your Ex employer's word doesn't hold as much weight. I'm sure there are more examples I could come up with as well. A small minority live fantastic lives in the US because the US has taken the idea of meritocracy and dialled it up to 11. The floor of the have-nots is much lower in the US in comparison to Europe because businesses have a wider degree of discretion in how they treat and reward employees. The person on the shop floor gets 1 week a year holiday while the regional manager gets 5 weeks a year. Of course businesses in Europe have some discretion in the upper limits to the benefits they offer their employees but they are still restraint in the lower limits. These differences I suspect are exactly why the GDP per capita is lower in European countries than in the US. Take Germany for example, an economic powerhouse and the 3rd largest global exporter. Impressive for a nation of just 83 million. The US has a PPP GDP per capita about $10,000 higher than Germany I find it very difficult to believe the US is $10,000 more productive than Germany. The US just puts more value in wealth creation (business) at the expense of the people. Europe has it's flaws in some of these things as well (e.g zero hour contracts) however it does better by the people more so than the US.
  - dkersten 7y ago
    > And the infinite greed isn’t “capitalism” in an of itself True, but the problems with communism aren't communism in and of itself either, but the reality is that these things incentivize certain types of behavior nonetheless.
- rdlecler1 7y ago
  Take away capitalism and we’re all famished peasants in the best case scenario.