5 ms·

The History of Medicinal Lithium

56 points by secondary 7y ago

pmlnr 7y ago
Related read: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/should-we-all-take-a-bit-of-lithium.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/should-we-...
jackhack 7y ago
Curiously, but I suppose not surprisingly, another element in the same column -- chromium -- has been shown to yield similar positive effects against depression. In the US, this is available over the counter as chromium picolinate. https://www.cell.com/trends/pharmacological-sciences/fulltext/S0165-6147(00)01622-9 https://www.cell.com/trends/pharmacological-sciences/fulltex... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12559660 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12559660
- msds 7y ago
  What column do you mean? They are in different rows and columns of the periodic table, and have rather different chemistry.
  - jackhack 7y ago
    sorry I was unclear. I meant "same column" in the colloquial sense, "the same group."
- cassowary37 7y ago
  please be careful in equating the two: there are decades of studies, including large trials, demonstrating benefit for lithium. It's considered gold standard treatment for bipolar disorder even in an era where big pharma pushes hard for newer and more costly meds. there is modest and inconsistent evidence from small trials that chromium picolinate, a dietary supplement, may be beneficial in depression. Oh, and note that chromium is more expensive than lithium too! (edit to add: re lithium: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5947163/; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5947163/; re chromium, I could find one RCT with n=15 in depression)
  - braindeath 7y ago
    > big pharma pushes hard for newer and more costly meds. Lithium is not perfect. It causes permanent kidney damage and is a pretty bad teratogen. Also overdose is pretty bad, which is never ideal for a mood medication. There is actual value in investigating new medications for bipolar beyond big pharma profits.
    - vonseel 7y ago
      I was under the impression Lithium side effects or dangers can be mitigated by monitoring blood levels properly.
  - delhanty 7y ago
    My personal experience (n == 1) study finds that a couple of Chromium GTF taken sublingually (ie sucked under the tongue) works instantly to improve my mood. I never use picolinate. Sublingual is so that it can cross the blood-brain barrier. I can use less Chromium that way to get the same improvement in mood. My pet hypothesis is that it works by displacing Vanadium from the brain. Vanadium and Chromium are very similar chemically, and some studies suggest that Vanadium is elevated in manic-depressives. Particularly, I'm high in Vanadium because I live in Japan and eat a lot of whole fish and seaweed. The main possible negative side-effect was that I needed more Manganese to balance the Chromium. That I worked out from developing mild dermatitis, that went away when I supplemented Manganese. [1] None of the above is a recommendation - your mileage may vary etc. Everything you supplement has side-effects. Particularly, supplementing one bivalent metal can create a functional deficiency in another. In this case, I wanted to reduce the effects of Vanadium but I ended up reducing Manganese too. Anyway, people need to do their own research to see what works for them. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6443582 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6443582 [1] https://books.google.com/books?id=3UG9BQAAQBAJ&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=manganese+dermatitis https://books.google.com/books?id=3UG9BQAAQBAJ&pg=PA45&lpg=P...
Uhuhreally 7y ago
interestingly lithium's medicinal properties depend on its isotope
nutate 7y ago
Liquid lithium syrup is still available (with a prescription?). I purchased some, but without sugar it doesn't taste much like sevenUp when combined with soda water. The first time I ever had it (in a mental ward) it really tasted like sevenUp, but I think that was set and setting more than anything. I love lithium (especially in comparison to newer mood stabilizers), but I do have to track my liver function with it. I generally just use pills, but in other countries the liquid is more popular. This is all for bipolar, not for recreation. I'll have to check out that book from the old library.
- trentlott 7y ago
  My wife has tried several new mood stabilizers and combination drugs, but none of them work as well as lithium Her old med (Latuda) will go up to $300/mo after the 1 year trial period....but it never worked very well. It is absurd that something so simple should work as effectively as it does
cassowary37 7y ago
Fun lithium fact: while most people start the lithium story with Cade (indeed, there's a form of lithium-responsive bipolar disorder which was sometimes called Cade's disease), it was previously used by Lincoln's surgeon general, William Hammond, to treat manic excitement (in the form of lithium bromide). But Hammond thought it was the bromide, not the lithium, that did the trick. obligatory wikipedia reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_A._Hammond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_A._Hammond
DoreenMichele 7y ago
Some practical provisos if you are actually taking lithium: https://pro.psychcentral.com/what-to-remember-about-lithium/ https://pro.psychcentral.com/what-to-remember-about-lithium/ https://www.drugs.com/lithium.html https://www.drugs.com/lithium.html https://www.livestrong.com/article/553214-correct-liquid-intake-with-lithium/ https://www.livestrong.com/article/553214-correct-liquid-int...

56 points by secondary 7y ago

Related read: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/should-we-all-take-a-bit-of-lithium.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/should-we-...

jackhack 7y ago

Curiously, but I suppose not surprisingly, another element in the same column -- chromium -- has been shown to yield similar positive effects against depression. In the US, this is available over the counter as chromium picolinate. https://www.cell.com/trends/pharmacological-sciences/fulltext/S0165-6147(00)01622-9 https://www.cell.com/trends/pharmacological-sciences/fulltex... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12559660 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12559660

msds 7y ago
What column do you mean? They are in different rows and columns of the periodic table, and have rather different chemistry.
- jackhack 7y ago
  sorry I was unclear. I meant "same column" in the colloquial sense, "the same group."
cassowary37 7y ago
please be careful in equating the two: there are decades of studies, including large trials, demonstrating benefit for lithium. It's considered gold standard treatment for bipolar disorder even in an era where big pharma pushes hard for newer and more costly meds. there is modest and inconsistent evidence from small trials that chromium picolinate, a dietary supplement, may be beneficial in depression. Oh, and note that chromium is more expensive than lithium too! (edit to add: re lithium: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5947163/; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5947163/; re chromium, I could find one RCT with n=15 in depression)
- braindeath 7y ago
  > big pharma pushes hard for newer and more costly meds. Lithium is not perfect. It causes permanent kidney damage and is a pretty bad teratogen. Also overdose is pretty bad, which is never ideal for a mood medication. There is actual value in investigating new medications for bipolar beyond big pharma profits.
  - vonseel 7y ago
    I was under the impression Lithium side effects or dangers can be mitigated by monitoring blood levels properly.
- delhanty 7y ago
  My personal experience (n == 1) study finds that a couple of Chromium GTF taken sublingually (ie sucked under the tongue) works instantly to improve my mood. I never use picolinate. Sublingual is so that it can cross the blood-brain barrier. I can use less Chromium that way to get the same improvement in mood. My pet hypothesis is that it works by displacing Vanadium from the brain. Vanadium and Chromium are very similar chemically, and some studies suggest that Vanadium is elevated in manic-depressives. Particularly, I'm high in Vanadium because I live in Japan and eat a lot of whole fish and seaweed. The main possible negative side-effect was that I needed more Manganese to balance the Chromium. That I worked out from developing mild dermatitis, that went away when I supplemented Manganese. [1] None of the above is a recommendation - your mileage may vary etc. Everything you supplement has side-effects. Particularly, supplementing one bivalent metal can create a functional deficiency in another. In this case, I wanted to reduce the effects of Vanadium but I ended up reducing Manganese too. Anyway, people need to do their own research to see what works for them. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6443582 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6443582 [1] https://books.google.com/books?id=3UG9BQAAQBAJ&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=manganese+dermatitis https://books.google.com/books?id=3UG9BQAAQBAJ&pg=PA45&lpg=P...

Uhuhreally 7y ago

interestingly lithium's medicinal properties depend on its isotope

nutate 7y ago

Liquid lithium syrup is still available (with a prescription?). I purchased some, but without sugar it doesn't taste much like sevenUp when combined with soda water. The first time I ever had it (in a mental ward) it really tasted like sevenUp, but I think that was set and setting more than anything. I love lithium (especially in comparison to newer mood stabilizers), but I do have to track my liver function with it. I generally just use pills, but in other countries the liquid is more popular. This is all for bipolar, not for recreation. I'll have to check out that book from the old library.

trentlott 7y ago
My wife has tried several new mood stabilizers and combination drugs, but none of them work as well as lithium Her old med (Latuda) will go up to $300/mo after the 1 year trial period....but it never worked very well. It is absurd that something so simple should work as effectively as it does

cassowary37 7y ago

Fun lithium fact: while most people start the lithium story with Cade (indeed, there's a form of lithium-responsive bipolar disorder which was sometimes called Cade's disease), it was previously used by Lincoln's surgeon general, William Hammond, to treat manic excitement (in the form of lithium bromide). But Hammond thought it was the bromide, not the lithium, that did the trick. obligatory wikipedia reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_A._Hammond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_A._Hammond

DoreenMichele 7y ago

Some practical provisos if you are actually taking lithium: https://pro.psychcentral.com/what-to-remember-about-lithium/ https://pro.psychcentral.com/what-to-remember-about-lithium/ https://www.drugs.com/lithium.html https://www.drugs.com/lithium.html https://www.livestrong.com/article/553214-correct-liquid-intake-with-lithium/ https://www.livestrong.com/article/553214-correct-liquid-int...