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>Specifically Apple-related and North American examples? That's an oddly narrow goalpost. Apple shares user encryption keys with the Chinese government, for e

>Specifically Apple-related and North American examples? That's an oddly narrow goalpost. Apple shares user encryption keys with the Chinese government, for example, giving the Chinese government access to all iCloud pictures, messages, documents, videos, etc.

girvo 7y ago
Do they? Shit, I thought that they’d set things up that sharing the key was extremely difficult if not impossible without access to the device? That’s disappointing if true, is there a good article on this?
- eitland 7y ago
  AFAIK this is only true for Chinese citizens or people who bought their phone in China or something but it is still scary.
  - bduerst 7y ago
    Yep, Chinese users only. The odd part is that the internet blew up at Google for even proposing it and later cancelling it with project Dragonfly (also only for Chinese users), but Apple quietly went ahead and just did it without many people noticing.
jki275 7y ago
That’s not accurate at all.
- bduerst 7y ago
  In early 2018, Apple forced their users to opt-in to migrating iCloud encryption keys and data to Chinese data centers: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insight/apple-moves-to-store-icloud-keys-in-china-raising-human-rights-fears-idUSKCN1G8060 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh... Chinese government nationalized the data centers six months later, gaining access to all the encryption keys and user iCloud data at rest: https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-data/#ahDzcDZPeiqd https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-d...
  - jki275 7y ago
    You've missed the fact that the OP said ALL. Apple does business in China the way they have to do business in China. I don't agree with that, but I'm also quite sure they have not given my iCloud keys to China.
    - bduerst 7y ago
      And you missed the point where I said that it was an oddly narrow goalpost. Also, how exactly was what I said "not accurate at all"? I accuarately said Apple was sharing iCloud data and encryption keys with the Chinese government.
      - jki275 7y ago
        You claimed Apple gives access to ALL iCloud data to China. That is not correct, which is why I pointed that out.
        bduerst 7y ago
        No I did not. You can read the comment thread and see that. That's your own straw man.
        jki275 7y ago
        "..giving the Chinese government access to all iCloud pictures, .." Direct quote. Emphasis mine.
        bduerst 7y ago
        >"Apple shares user encryption keys with the Chinese government, for example, giving the Chinese government access to all iCloud pictures, messages, documents, videos, etc." Is the full sentence with context, meaning access for all the iCloud data for the encryption keys being shared. Don't mince words because you misunderstood the sentence.
jachee 7y ago
> That's an oddly narrow goalpost. I didn't want to get accused of moving it later. Also, I'm only interested if there's evidence that applies to me. I'm 100% Apple and 100% USA-based, so if there's proof that "the government is listening!" then I want to see it.

girvo 7y ago

Do they? Shit, I thought that they’d set things up that sharing the key was extremely difficult if not impossible without access to the device? That’s disappointing if true, is there a good article on this?

eitland 7y ago
AFAIK this is only true for Chinese citizens or people who bought their phone in China or something but it is still scary.
- bduerst 7y ago
  Yep, Chinese users only. The odd part is that the internet blew up at Google for even proposing it and later cancelling it with project Dragonfly (also only for Chinese users), but Apple quietly went ahead and just did it without many people noticing.

jki275 7y ago

That’s not accurate at all.

bduerst 7y ago
In early 2018, Apple forced their users to opt-in to migrating iCloud encryption keys and data to Chinese data centers: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insight/apple-moves-to-store-icloud-keys-in-china-raising-human-rights-fears-idUSKCN1G8060 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh... Chinese government nationalized the data centers six months later, gaining access to all the encryption keys and user iCloud data at rest: https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-data/#ahDzcDZPeiqd https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-d...
- jki275 7y ago
  You've missed the fact that the OP said ALL. Apple does business in China the way they have to do business in China. I don't agree with that, but I'm also quite sure they have not given my iCloud keys to China.
  - bduerst 7y ago
    And you missed the point where I said that it was an oddly narrow goalpost. Also, how exactly was what I said "not accurate at all"? I accuarately said Apple was sharing iCloud data and encryption keys with the Chinese government.
    - jki275 7y ago
      You claimed Apple gives access to ALL iCloud data to China. That is not correct, which is why I pointed that out.
      - bduerst 7y ago
        No I did not. You can read the comment thread and see that. That's your own straw man.
        jki275 7y ago
        "..giving the Chinese government access to all iCloud pictures, .." Direct quote. Emphasis mine.
        bduerst 7y ago
        >"Apple shares user encryption keys with the Chinese government, for example, giving the Chinese government access to all iCloud pictures, messages, documents, videos, etc." Is the full sentence with context, meaning access for all the iCloud data for the encryption keys being shared. Don't mince words because you misunderstood the sentence.

jachee 7y ago

> That's an oddly narrow goalpost. I didn't want to get accused of moving it later. Also, I'm only interested if there's evidence that applies to me. I'm 100% Apple and 100% USA-based, so if there's proof that "the government is listening!" then I want to see it.