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I worry that Tesla's self-driving ambitions put their entire mission (sustainable transit) and products at risk. Being conservative just isn't in their DNA—and

I worry that Tesla's self-driving ambitions put their entire mission (sustainable transit) and products at risk. Being conservative just isn't in their DNA—and you NEED that DNA to work on autonomy. Advanced Summon is a good example of this problem. You might say it needs to be deployed to get the data needed to refine it. But they could have spent more time silently collecting data, comparing what the computer would do with what real drivers do. And they could have at least staged the rollout to happen much more slowly. I just don't think they should have released it this widely in the current state. It's disingenuous to label it as beta and ask users to uncover the kinks with real risk to life and property.

dyarosla 7y ago
"But they could have spent more time silently collecting data, comparing what the computer would do with what real drivers do." From their Autonomy day presentation, I thought this is how most of their releases go though? They run it in shadow mode, then launch when the accuracy gets high enough? That said, I do agree with you on the sentiment regarding Tesla's self-driving ambitions potentially putting their sustainable transit mission at risk.
- toddmorey 7y ago
  You're absolutely correct. I'm just saying they could have spent even more time doing it. I wonder what the gating success metrics were for Tesla for this feature.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
microtherion 7y ago
Electric cars may be less polluting, but that doesn't make them "sustainable transit". It's a band-aid on the many problems caused by car-centric development, which does nothing to solve the fundamental issues: https://www.donkey.bike/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/autonomous_vehicles_space_problem.jpg https://www.donkey.bike/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/autonomou...
- chrisstanchak 7y ago
  If the same car can do 20 trips on its own that graphic looks completely different.
  - dragontamer 7y ago
    Because now 20 cars will hold less than 20 people on the average. 20 cars on the road with many of them autonomous may only have 15 or maybe only 10 people.
    - zaroth 7y ago
      It’s a good point, but counting the taxi driver as increasing efficiency is disingenuous.
      - dragontamer 7y ago
        Taxis are an invalid alternative. The truly "Green" alternatives are electric scooters, bikes, busses, and subways. Electric scooters seem to be the winner in point-to-point movement within a city, although we're going to need to figure out proper safety regulations moving forward (scooter speed limits, road vs sidewalk, etc. etc.) Although still immature, the explosion of scooter-based inner city travel gives me a lot of optimism to that methodology. 20 people on 20 scooters will be more space efficient, cheaper, and environmentally friendly. They move slower than cars, but seem ideal for urban point-to-point travel under 2 miles. Apparently, Segway had the right idea (but the tech wasn't mature enough. Modern Li-Ion batteries + Scooter rentals + Scooter Ride Sharing apps didn't exist in the 00s, but today make it a reasonable technology to use). ------------- Given a good enough bus network, scooters should work for Point-to-bus-to-point travel, or Point-to-subway-to-point travel, since they're small enough to carry in a backpack.
        zaroth 7y ago
        I think this is just wildly out of touch. Yes, a family of 4 with two small children, getting around on buses and scooters carried in their backpacks.

dyarosla 7y ago

"But they could have spent more time silently collecting data, comparing what the computer would do with what real drivers do." From their Autonomy day presentation, I thought this is how most of their releases go though? They run it in shadow mode, then launch when the accuracy gets high enough? That said, I do agree with you on the sentiment regarding Tesla's self-driving ambitions potentially putting their sustainable transit mission at risk.

toddmorey 7y ago
You're absolutely correct. I'm just saying they could have spent even more time doing it. I wonder what the gating success metrics were for Tesla for this feature.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

microtherion 7y ago

Electric cars may be less polluting, but that doesn't make them "sustainable transit". It's a band-aid on the many problems caused by car-centric development, which does nothing to solve the fundamental issues: https://www.donkey.bike/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/autonomous_vehicles_space_problem.jpg https://www.donkey.bike/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/autonomou...

chrisstanchak 7y ago
If the same car can do 20 trips on its own that graphic looks completely different.
- dragontamer 7y ago
  Because now 20 cars will hold less than 20 people on the average. 20 cars on the road with many of them autonomous may only have 15 or maybe only 10 people.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    It’s a good point, but counting the taxi driver as increasing efficiency is disingenuous.
    - dragontamer 7y ago
      Taxis are an invalid alternative. The truly "Green" alternatives are electric scooters, bikes, busses, and subways. Electric scooters seem to be the winner in point-to-point movement within a city, although we're going to need to figure out proper safety regulations moving forward (scooter speed limits, road vs sidewalk, etc. etc.) Although still immature, the explosion of scooter-based inner city travel gives me a lot of optimism to that methodology. 20 people on 20 scooters will be more space efficient, cheaper, and environmentally friendly. They move slower than cars, but seem ideal for urban point-to-point travel under 2 miles. Apparently, Segway had the right idea (but the tech wasn't mature enough. Modern Li-Ion batteries + Scooter rentals + Scooter Ride Sharing apps didn't exist in the 00s, but today make it a reasonable technology to use). ------------- Given a good enough bus network, scooters should work for Point-to-bus-to-point travel, or Point-to-subway-to-point travel, since they're small enough to carry in a backpack.
      - zaroth 7y ago
        I think this is just wildly out of touch. Yes, a family of 4 with two small children, getting around on buses and scooters carried in their backpacks.