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I think the concept of "freedom of speech" is highly subjective. If you go to China you would find very little consideration for a lack of freedom of speech asi

I think the concept of "freedom of speech" is highly subjective. If you go to China you would find very little consideration for a lack of freedom of speech aside from a few radicals whose mission is to cause turbulence to the existing regime. In Beijing, you can walk in many taxis and hear the driver blabber on to no end regarding the state of existence in China and state defamatory words regarding the Communist, the past, or the current presidency. In contrast, in America I often find myself in fear of coming forth and stating any merit that I thought of the potential Trump presidency, and the now presidency. In professional careers I'd fear a sense of being seen as a "demoral" person and I would fear for silent retaliation. Propaganda and ideology come hand in hand, I certainly do not disregard Chinese propaganda, but likewise I am no different to the narrative on China's own political structure that's becoming ever stronger in the West since the uprising of China. On the other hand, what is true "freedom of speech"? The narrative has been sounding more and more to me like a "freedom to uprise and overthrow the government". Due to my limited existence in the world, I can't claim merit or demerit to such ideal. But I am simply no fan of chaos caused due to the act of "trying to overthrow a government to seek ideal in the face of perceived oppression", especially when an entire region is almost shut down and hurt for many months.

j8014 7y ago
> I think the concept of "freedom of speech" is highly subjective. What utter nonsense.
- thewholeview 7y ago
  Thanks for the opinion, care to expand on it to help educate?
  - lammasass 7y ago
    No need - america free, china bad. Indeed in america if you are not white, or white but against the norm, you pretty must “censored” by society. Not to mention government monitoring and rapid standard of living decline because of corruption at the highest levels.
  - bashinator 7y ago
    Freedom of speech is the prohibition of government interference in peoples' ability to express themselves. That's why the first amendment of the US constitution starts with the words, "Congress shall make no law". This is a very objective standard.
plazmaphyujin 7y ago
This is a total misunderstanding of freedom of speech and the first amendment. Freedom of speech does not mean you are free to say anything to anyone and never face consequences for your choices. The concept of freedom is to be free from the government officially and legally restricting your right to publicly address your grievances. China's citizens do not have this freedom. Just because taxi drivers are not afraid to express themselves in the privacy of their cab to other citizens does not mean they wouldn't fear for their livelihood to say the same thing on a stage where it would actually make a difference. True freedom of speech is this: In America, anyone can stand in the middle of a public square and shout whatever they want about the government and the police will do nothing. Other people are then allowed to also shout and demonstrate that that person is an idiot, or maybe right, but the government never gets involved. In China, any demonstration like this is swiftly punished by authorities. On an exchange trip I went on about ~10 years ago an American college student decided it was good idea to shout "Free Tibet!" over and over in the middle of Tiananmen square. An unmarked white van appeared in < 5 minutes and he was gone. He was unharmed but that evening he was on the first flight back to America. People may hate you and retaliate against you in America for what you say, but they cannot and will never arrest you. That is freedom of speech.
- thewholeview 7y ago
  Thanks for the perspective, I will openly admit that my understanding of freedom of speech is lacking/different than others' understanding. I think what's interesting is the idea behind. Either your example or my example of freedom of speech is purely political, which we must recognize. Let's take a step back and consider a company. The management sets up an orderly system (or so they think). If the company is progressing well, everyone is working towards a common goal, would there be a need to have people standing up to voice their opinions to influence others which they can't even claim righteousness to? Sure it's freedom, but I'm sure less would need it. When the company goes downhill however, and people want to uprise and cause a change, this is where having this freedom appears to be a necessity. I think inherently there is a discussion hidden here somewhere between order and chaos. And with everything being a spectrum, we must recognize that the level of "freedom" people will need, and people should have will also need to vary depending on the current state of existence. To many of those in China who do not wish to practice in politics, especially since the Communist has produced an unprecedented growth in the last decade, little are finding a need for such a level of "freedom". Sure this system will not be perpetual functional. When the economic growth slows or when China becomes a super power level entity, global clashes causes ideology shifts and needs, China may need to continually seek a structural shift in its own pace. What's being preached often in the western world however, is a utilization of a "lack of freedom of speech" as a weaponry towards an uprising China that will threaten US's dominance. There is nothing wrong with that, it's only a bit hypocritical that's all, but thus is politics. I think what's important is that, if HK must feel like they will need the fight, then I respect the fight and wishes them best on achieving what they can. Though I do at the same time wish for a peaceful resolution versus a degraded society after an endless fight to achieve a perceived ideal ideology. I have friends in HK and I definitely wish for them to prosper.
thrwy_01 7y ago
I don't understand why people are down voting this comment, as I think it is an accurate reflection of what many mainland Chinese would consider an honest and balanced opinion. When the primary goal of the last generation has been stability and the promotion of economic growth over personal freedoms and liberties, this is probably the opinion many non Chinese would have when placed in a similar situation. This does not exist the complete hypocrisy of the Chinese government, but I think it would be tragic to stoop to their level in drowning out the honest, good faith opinions of others.
- djdjjdjdj 7y ago
  People are downvoting it because he presented a misrepresentation of freedom of speech. Please read the adjacent comment by the other user which explains freedom of speech.

j8014 7y ago

> I think the concept of "freedom of speech" is highly subjective. What utter nonsense.

thewholeview 7y ago
Thanks for the opinion, care to expand on it to help educate?
- lammasass 7y ago
  No need - america free, china bad. Indeed in america if you are not white, or white but against the norm, you pretty must “censored” by society. Not to mention government monitoring and rapid standard of living decline because of corruption at the highest levels.
- bashinator 7y ago
  Freedom of speech is the prohibition of government interference in peoples' ability to express themselves. That's why the first amendment of the US constitution starts with the words, "Congress shall make no law". This is a very objective standard.

plazmaphyujin 7y ago

This is a total misunderstanding of freedom of speech and the first amendment. Freedom of speech does not mean you are free to say anything to anyone and never face consequences for your choices. The concept of freedom is to be free from the government officially and legally restricting your right to publicly address your grievances. China's citizens do not have this freedom. Just because taxi drivers are not afraid to express themselves in the privacy of their cab to other citizens does not mean they wouldn't fear for their livelihood to say the same thing on a stage where it would actually make a difference. True freedom of speech is this: In America, anyone can stand in the middle of a public square and shout whatever they want about the government and the police will do nothing. Other people are then allowed to also shout and demonstrate that that person is an idiot, or maybe right, but the government never gets involved. In China, any demonstration like this is swiftly punished by authorities. On an exchange trip I went on about ~10 years ago an American college student decided it was good idea to shout "Free Tibet!" over and over in the middle of Tiananmen square. An unmarked white van appeared in < 5 minutes and he was gone. He was unharmed but that evening he was on the first flight back to America. People may hate you and retaliate against you in America for what you say, but they cannot and will never arrest you. That is freedom of speech.

thewholeview 7y ago
Thanks for the perspective, I will openly admit that my understanding of freedom of speech is lacking/different than others' understanding. I think what's interesting is the idea behind. Either your example or my example of freedom of speech is purely political, which we must recognize. Let's take a step back and consider a company. The management sets up an orderly system (or so they think). If the company is progressing well, everyone is working towards a common goal, would there be a need to have people standing up to voice their opinions to influence others which they can't even claim righteousness to? Sure it's freedom, but I'm sure less would need it. When the company goes downhill however, and people want to uprise and cause a change, this is where having this freedom appears to be a necessity. I think inherently there is a discussion hidden here somewhere between order and chaos. And with everything being a spectrum, we must recognize that the level of "freedom" people will need, and people should have will also need to vary depending on the current state of existence. To many of those in China who do not wish to practice in politics, especially since the Communist has produced an unprecedented growth in the last decade, little are finding a need for such a level of "freedom". Sure this system will not be perpetual functional. When the economic growth slows or when China becomes a super power level entity, global clashes causes ideology shifts and needs, China may need to continually seek a structural shift in its own pace. What's being preached often in the western world however, is a utilization of a "lack of freedom of speech" as a weaponry towards an uprising China that will threaten US's dominance. There is nothing wrong with that, it's only a bit hypocritical that's all, but thus is politics. I think what's important is that, if HK must feel like they will need the fight, then I respect the fight and wishes them best on achieving what they can. Though I do at the same time wish for a peaceful resolution versus a degraded society after an endless fight to achieve a perceived ideal ideology. I have friends in HK and I definitely wish for them to prosper.

thrwy_01 7y ago

I don't understand why people are down voting this comment, as I think it is an accurate reflection of what many mainland Chinese would consider an honest and balanced opinion. When the primary goal of the last generation has been stability and the promotion of economic growth over personal freedoms and liberties, this is probably the opinion many non Chinese would have when placed in a similar situation. This does not exist the complete hypocrisy of the Chinese government, but I think it would be tragic to stoop to their level in drowning out the honest, good faith opinions of others.

djdjjdjdj 7y ago
People are downvoting it because he presented a misrepresentation of freedom of speech. Please read the adjacent comment by the other user which explains freedom of speech.