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I think people of HK have tried other more peaceful approaches in the past and have received nothing in return from Beijing. Do you have any propositions of wh

I think people of HK have tried other more peaceful approaches in the past and have received nothing in return from Beijing. Do you have any propositions of what citizens of HK, or China, can do to get more freedoms like freedom of speech or from random arrests on trumped up charges which is how the current situation started? I don't think anyone in HK want to be in this situation but for many they see it as a last choice they are willing to risk their life for.

verttii 7y ago
Countries who have successfully gained independence have often sacrificed a lot of blood for it. And built strong armed forces to back that independence up with. Whatever we may think is morally right, HK does not seem to be putting together that hard resistance, nor is it building up its own armed forces to declare and maintain independence with. China thinks HK is legally theirs and nothing we say or do will change their position over it. That's why I don't see these protests achieving anything.
- kmonsen 7y ago
  I don't think we disagree? Note that there has historically been another way, to force the oppressor to be brutal enough that they, or the people sent to do it, will turn on the government. This worked in India against the British and almost worked in Tiananmen, rural army units had to be called in. I don't think it will work currently against China, but it is the only thing HK protestors are willing to do which I respect them for.
  - verttii 7y ago
    Yeah it's a gamble. It didn't work against the USSR in 1968 but it did work with the Baltics in 1991. China is as strong and determined as ever, I really don't see any way the protesters would get what they ultimately want.
thewholeview 7y ago
I think the concept of "freedom of speech" is highly subjective. If you go to China you would find very little consideration for a lack of freedom of speech aside from a few radicals whose mission is to cause turbulence to the existing regime. In Beijing, you can walk in many taxis and hear the driver blabber on to no end regarding the state of existence in China and state defamatory words regarding the Communist, the past, or the current presidency. In contrast, in America I often find myself in fear of coming forth and stating any merit that I thought of the potential Trump presidency, and the now presidency. In professional careers I'd fear a sense of being seen as a "demoral" person and I would fear for silent retaliation. Propaganda and ideology come hand in hand, I certainly do not disregard Chinese propaganda, but likewise I am no different to the narrative on China's own political structure that's becoming ever stronger in the West since the uprising of China. On the other hand, what is true "freedom of speech"? The narrative has been sounding more and more to me like a "freedom to uprise and overthrow the government". Due to my limited existence in the world, I can't claim merit or demerit to such ideal. But I am simply no fan of chaos caused due to the act of "trying to overthrow a government to seek ideal in the face of perceived oppression", especially when an entire region is almost shut down and hurt for many months.
- j8014 7y ago
  > I think the concept of "freedom of speech" is highly subjective. What utter nonsense.
  - thewholeview 7y ago
    Thanks for the opinion, care to expand on it to help educate?
    - lammasass 7y ago
      No need - america free, china bad. Indeed in america if you are not white, or white but against the norm, you pretty must “censored” by society. Not to mention government monitoring and rapid standard of living decline because of corruption at the highest levels.
p9264throw 7y ago
Join the government and change it from within.
- djdjjdjdj 7y ago
  If you understand LegCo and how the system is currently setup to benefit pro business and pro Communist government, you will realise changing it from within is a farce. The game has been rigged specifically to benefit China alone. The system is slowly being corrupted by pro Chinese force. Out of the last 3 CE, one was indicted for corruption. One took 8mil USD in consulting fee and then through China having to save his face, had his investigation dismissed by firing the investigator. The current one even admits she solely takes orders from Beijing. There is no good faith governance from the beginning.

verttii 7y ago

Countries who have successfully gained independence have often sacrificed a lot of blood for it. And built strong armed forces to back that independence up with. Whatever we may think is morally right, HK does not seem to be putting together that hard resistance, nor is it building up its own armed forces to declare and maintain independence with. China thinks HK is legally theirs and nothing we say or do will change their position over it. That's why I don't see these protests achieving anything.

kmonsen 7y ago
I don't think we disagree? Note that there has historically been another way, to force the oppressor to be brutal enough that they, or the people sent to do it, will turn on the government. This worked in India against the British and almost worked in Tiananmen, rural army units had to be called in. I don't think it will work currently against China, but it is the only thing HK protestors are willing to do which I respect them for.
- verttii 7y ago
  Yeah it's a gamble. It didn't work against the USSR in 1968 but it did work with the Baltics in 1991. China is as strong and determined as ever, I really don't see any way the protesters would get what they ultimately want.

thewholeview 7y ago

I think the concept of "freedom of speech" is highly subjective. If you go to China you would find very little consideration for a lack of freedom of speech aside from a few radicals whose mission is to cause turbulence to the existing regime. In Beijing, you can walk in many taxis and hear the driver blabber on to no end regarding the state of existence in China and state defamatory words regarding the Communist, the past, or the current presidency. In contrast, in America I often find myself in fear of coming forth and stating any merit that I thought of the potential Trump presidency, and the now presidency. In professional careers I'd fear a sense of being seen as a "demoral" person and I would fear for silent retaliation. Propaganda and ideology come hand in hand, I certainly do not disregard Chinese propaganda, but likewise I am no different to the narrative on China's own political structure that's becoming ever stronger in the West since the uprising of China. On the other hand, what is true "freedom of speech"? The narrative has been sounding more and more to me like a "freedom to uprise and overthrow the government". Due to my limited existence in the world, I can't claim merit or demerit to such ideal. But I am simply no fan of chaos caused due to the act of "trying to overthrow a government to seek ideal in the face of perceived oppression", especially when an entire region is almost shut down and hurt for many months.

j8014 7y ago
> I think the concept of "freedom of speech" is highly subjective. What utter nonsense.
- thewholeview 7y ago
  Thanks for the opinion, care to expand on it to help educate?
  - lammasass 7y ago
    No need - america free, china bad. Indeed in america if you are not white, or white but against the norm, you pretty must “censored” by society. Not to mention government monitoring and rapid standard of living decline because of corruption at the highest levels.

p9264throw 7y ago

Join the government and change it from within.

djdjjdjdj 7y ago
If you understand LegCo and how the system is currently setup to benefit pro business and pro Communist government, you will realise changing it from within is a farce. The game has been rigged specifically to benefit China alone. The system is slowly being corrupted by pro Chinese force. Out of the last 3 CE, one was indicted for corruption. One took 8mil USD in consulting fee and then through China having to save his face, had his investigation dismissed by firing the investigator. The current one even admits she solely takes orders from Beijing. There is no good faith governance from the beginning.