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Did the pre-communism period engage in widespread religious persecution and send millions of Russians to the gulags to be worked to death?

• the_af 7y ago
  Yes: From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom > A pogrom is a violent riot aimed at the massacre or persecution of an ethnic or religious group, particularly one aimed at Jews. The Russian term originally entered the English language in order to describe 19th and 20th century attacks on Jews in the Russian Empire (mostly within the Pale of Settlement).
  • yters 7y ago
    While that is religious persocution, it is persecution of a particular religion. The Soviets oppressed all religions since theism threatened the state's power. Same as in China today.
    • the_af 7y ago
      Maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Russian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Russian... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide then?
      • yters 7y ago
        Certainly bad, but does not seem at the scale or intent of the gulags. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag At least it is hard to see how the Soviets were an improvement on the past.
        • the_af 7y ago
          Peasants, workers and people from non-aristocratic families could rise to the top?
          • yters 7y ago
            Could they? Seems like everyone became a serf of the state. Plus, the millions sent to the gulags couldn't rise.
            • the_af 7y ago
              Yes, they could. The state was formed by people from non aristocratic backgrounds and it is undeniable there was upward mobility compared to the rigid caste system of the Russian Empire. You can argue that it was a totalitarian government ruled by dictators, but you cannot argue that it was ruled by an aristocracy or that a peasant couldn't rise up to rule the country. A well connected Party member or apparatchik could live relatively decently regardless of his ancestry, on "merit" (connectedness) alone. Yes, he could also get shot or imprisoned, but the same was true with the Empire, where he'd never rule. Stalin was born in a poor family. Lenin's was wealthy middle class, but not aristocratic. Trotsky was born to (wealthy) farmers. Kruschev was the son of peasants and Brezhnev the son of workers. Just to name a few...
              • yters 7y ago
                Sounds like they just created a new aristocratic class that was even more brutal. Still hard to see an improvement.
• frenchyatwork 7y ago
  They didn't need to. The regular conditions on the local farms were about the same.
• vkou 7y ago
  > Did the pre-communism period engage in widespread religious persecution Yes, it absolutely absolutey did. [1][2][3] And, you only need to stick a spade in the ground, to find literal skeletons in the closet of Imperial Russia (Whose military, historically spent most of its times brutally repressing ethnic minority uprisings... Just like the Soviets did, in the 20th century.) > send millions of Russians to the gulags How did you think St. Petersburg was built? With the bones of conscripted serfs. [4] Or the Trans-Siberian? Do you think people were volunteering for the chance to work on it? Or, speaking of Siberia, in the rest of that hell-hole? No - Siberia was developed through forced labour of prisoners, under the Katorga system. Did you think the Russian secret terror police start with the KGB, or the NKVD? This apparatus was invented by aptly-named Ivan the Terrible, who established the Oprichina. Or the Trans-siberian? [1] Persecuting jews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom#Russian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom#Russian_Empire [2] Persecuting muslims: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Russian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Russian... [3] Repression of non-Russians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg#Imperial_era_(1703–1917) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg#Imperial_era_...
  • 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
    While labor camps (eg Solovki) do predate the Communist era, their scale was massively expanded by the Soviets -- we're talking of scaling up from thousands of people to millions. Solzhenitsyn explores this in detail in the Gulag Archipelago. That said, for much of the Imperial period, crimes were punished not by banishment, but through mutilation (gouging eyes, cutting off tongues and hands, etc) and execution.