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Developers love agile. The thing they hate is Agile. Which is completely different. (Notably, it's not agile.)

quotemstr 7y ago
Indeed, but this criticism suffers from the no-true-Scotsman fallacy. Better to just eschew anyone who endorses "agile" no matter how persuasively he claims to practice the one true actually-agile Agile methodology.
- JimDabell 7y ago
  > this criticism suffers from the no-true-Scotsman fallacy It really doesn't. Most of the things people hate about capital-A Agile are things that specifically go against the agile manifesto. Take a look at the Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe): https://156s6k36aesz1w6oyx474wo9-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/46BP-FULL.png https://156s6k36aesz1w6oyx474wo9-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-... It's an atrocity of an overbearing bureaucracy created by a committee of consultants that obviously fetishise process. Take a look at the agile manifesto: http://agilemanifesto.org http://agilemanifesto.org Its very first principle is: > Individuals and interactions over processes and tools Take a look at the rest of the principles and compare them to that diagram. SAFe is clearly the opposite of agile. It calls itself "Agile", but it's as non-agile as is possible to get. What we have here is not the no-true-Scotsman fallacy, it's somebody rightfully pointing out that somebody born in Australia, who has never left the country, with no heritage that comes anywhere near the northern hemisphere, is not, in fact, Scottish.
  - quotemstr 7y ago
    Sure. Yet every single time an organization tries agile, the result is a dysfunctional mess. After this history of pain, "real agile isn't like this!" has just as much legitimacy and persuasive power as the old "real communism has never been tried" line.
    - JimDabell 7y ago
      > Yet every single time an organization tries agile, the result is a dysfunctional mess. This isn't true though.

Indeed, but this criticism suffers from the no-true-Scotsman fallacy. Better to just eschew anyone who endorses "agile" no matter how persuasively he claims to practice the one true actually-agile Agile methodology.

JimDabell 7y ago
> this criticism suffers from the no-true-Scotsman fallacy It really doesn't. Most of the things people hate about capital-A Agile are things that specifically go against the agile manifesto. Take a look at the Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe): https://156s6k36aesz1w6oyx474wo9-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/46BP-FULL.png https://156s6k36aesz1w6oyx474wo9-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-... It's an atrocity of an overbearing bureaucracy created by a committee of consultants that obviously fetishise process. Take a look at the agile manifesto: http://agilemanifesto.org http://agilemanifesto.org Its very first principle is: > Individuals and interactions over processes and tools Take a look at the rest of the principles and compare them to that diagram. SAFe is clearly the opposite of agile. It calls itself "Agile", but it's as non-agile as is possible to get. What we have here is not the no-true-Scotsman fallacy, it's somebody rightfully pointing out that somebody born in Australia, who has never left the country, with no heritage that comes anywhere near the northern hemisphere, is not, in fact, Scottish.
- quotemstr 7y ago
  Sure. Yet every single time an organization tries agile, the result is a dysfunctional mess. After this history of pain, "real agile isn't like this!" has just as much legitimacy and persuasive power as the old "real communism has never been tried" line.
  - JimDabell 7y ago
    > Yet every single time an organization tries agile, the result is a dysfunctional mess. This isn't true though.