4 ms·

Please don't compare the Chinese government's actions to the Trump administration. They're not even remotely close.

loceng 7y ago
They are absolutely leading toward the same path, outcome. If you're up for reading I've heard the book Maps of Meaning by Jordan Peterson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_Meaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_Meaning - will be a deep dive or good introduction to referencing patterns and tyrannical governments through history.
- dkkdkdkdk 7y ago
  You are definitely being unfairly downvoted. The China shills are in full force.
20190820234322 7y ago
Trump, for all his flaws, is fundamentally a good human being, or at least is entitled to being assumed to be such simply because he grew up in a democratic country. The same cannot be said of the Chinese.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  I'm sorry, did you just seriously say, "The Chinese are not fundamentally good human beings"? Because I'm trying to read your comment as anything other than unbelievably racist and coming up empty.
  - 20190820234322 7y ago
    Are you saying that all human beings are "fundamentally good human beings"? Even Hitler?
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't feed the trolls. This is in the HN guidelines, under other wording: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- excalibur 7y ago
  Trump is not entitled to any such assumption, you cannot assume the moral character of an individual based on their national origin.
  - 20190820234322 7y ago
    I'm not. This has nothing to do with national origin. I explicitly said the presumption is based on having been raised in a democracy and therefore having been exposed to enlightened views.
squarefoot 7y ago
They aren't close because they don't need to at the moment. All "western" nations populations have been divided and conquered long time ago so that for every group of righties/lefties protesting down the street there's an opposed lefties/righties countering group somewhere making the news, so that for any 50% of the population the enemy becomes the other 50%, not the rulers, and thanks to well crafted propaganda the reasons for protesting usually reflect that. This is done on purpose of course. The day any western government fails at dividing people and does something that can unite all protesters is the day you will see police and the military shooting at people. In every country or culture the 1st rule for any government officer is protect the status quo at all cost (then picture as traitors whose who refuse to). People start to die when they no longer are lured into fighting against their peers, and both them and police (which now is seen rather as enemy than external player) refuse to back off. Give people enough important motives to protest united against their government (that is, no food, no house, no jobs) and you will see bullets and corpses pretty soon, no matter their nationality/religion/color/sex/whatever. Maintaining the status quo at all costs against well motivated protesters always escalates into violence and deaths; it happened in 3rd world countries and in one of the most developed places in the world, why should we believe it can't happen to us?
- loceng 7y ago
  The scenario you paint here would only be true if a society's population truly were "enemies" and holding very different human beliefs, wants - which fortunately isn't the case - because the people of a nation evolve together generally; the problem arises when you mix two different people from different nations with different cultures, where this "50/50" destructive behaviour can exist - say when the native Americans were mostly wiped out, another scenario would be if somehow you dropped 10%+ of China's population into America all of a sudden or vice-versa. Historically this was a common war tactic - and still to this day we can see it in Canada, for example, with student protestors who are pro-China, indoctrinated into pro-China doctrine - the hypocrisy of having the freedom to protest in support of a nation state who disallows free speech and reigns supreme with censorship; we can't judge these people harshly, with compassion we understand they've been indoctrinated - their own safety and that of their friends and family may also rest in the balance - and it makes me feel like an important part of immigration should be education to de-brainwash them to make sure they understand these mechanisms of tyrants, suppression-repression of freedom, of control. Otherwise you paint an unrealistic, bleak picture which isn't grounded in reality if there's optimism and humanity included.

They are absolutely leading toward the same path, outcome. If you're up for reading I've heard the book Maps of Meaning by Jordan Peterson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_Meaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_Meaning - will be a deep dive or good introduction to referencing patterns and tyrannical governments through history.

dkkdkdkdk 7y ago
You are definitely being unfairly downvoted. The China shills are in full force.

20190820234322 7y ago

Trump, for all his flaws, is fundamentally a good human being, or at least is entitled to being assumed to be such simply because he grew up in a democratic country. The same cannot be said of the Chinese.

Pfhreak 7y ago
I'm sorry, did you just seriously say, "The Chinese are not fundamentally good human beings"? Because I'm trying to read your comment as anything other than unbelievably racist and coming up empty.
- 20190820234322 7y ago
  Are you saying that all human beings are "fundamentally good human beings"? Even Hitler?
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't feed the trolls. This is in the HN guidelines, under other wording: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
excalibur 7y ago
Trump is not entitled to any such assumption, you cannot assume the moral character of an individual based on their national origin.
- 20190820234322 7y ago
  I'm not. This has nothing to do with national origin. I explicitly said the presumption is based on having been raised in a democracy and therefore having been exposed to enlightened views.

squarefoot 7y ago

They aren't close because they don't need to at the moment. All "western" nations populations have been divided and conquered long time ago so that for every group of righties/lefties protesting down the street there's an opposed lefties/righties countering group somewhere making the news, so that for any 50% of the population the enemy becomes the other 50%, not the rulers, and thanks to well crafted propaganda the reasons for protesting usually reflect that. This is done on purpose of course. The day any western government fails at dividing people and does something that can unite all protesters is the day you will see police and the military shooting at people. In every country or culture the 1st rule for any government officer is protect the status quo at all cost (then picture as traitors whose who refuse to). People start to die when they no longer are lured into fighting against their peers, and both them and police (which now is seen rather as enemy than external player) refuse to back off. Give people enough important motives to protest united against their government (that is, no food, no house, no jobs) and you will see bullets and corpses pretty soon, no matter their nationality/religion/color/sex/whatever. Maintaining the status quo at all costs against well motivated protesters always escalates into violence and deaths; it happened in 3rd world countries and in one of the most developed places in the world, why should we believe it can't happen to us?

loceng 7y ago
The scenario you paint here would only be true if a society's population truly were "enemies" and holding very different human beliefs, wants - which fortunately isn't the case - because the people of a nation evolve together generally; the problem arises when you mix two different people from different nations with different cultures, where this "50/50" destructive behaviour can exist - say when the native Americans were mostly wiped out, another scenario would be if somehow you dropped 10%+ of China's population into America all of a sudden or vice-versa. Historically this was a common war tactic - and still to this day we can see it in Canada, for example, with student protestors who are pro-China, indoctrinated into pro-China doctrine - the hypocrisy of having the freedom to protest in support of a nation state who disallows free speech and reigns supreme with censorship; we can't judge these people harshly, with compassion we understand they've been indoctrinated - their own safety and that of their friends and family may also rest in the balance - and it makes me feel like an important part of immigration should be education to de-brainwash them to make sure they understand these mechanisms of tyrants, suppression-repression of freedom, of control. Otherwise you paint an unrealistic, bleak picture which isn't grounded in reality if there's optimism and humanity included.