30 ms·

So this may be interpreted poorly, but why was this murder such a big story in the news? This is a drop in the bucket of Saudi misdeeds. Is this not in line wi

So this may be interpreted poorly, but why was this murder such a big story in the news? This is a drop in the bucket of Saudi misdeeds. Is this not in line with the average person’s perception of the Saudi government?

dpark 7y ago
> Is this not in line with the average person’s perception of the Saudi government? No. The average person thinks we’re allies and therefore by definition Saudi Arabia is run by “good guys”.
- tc313 7y ago
  Are you sure that you’re not an average person? I think most people understand that Saudi Arabia doesn’t operate to the standards of Western republics.
- icebraining 7y ago
  That's not what the polls in the US shows; 2/3rds have a mostly or very unfavourable opinion of SA: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1624/perceptions-foreign-countries.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1624/perceptions-foreign-countr...
- bryanrasmussen 7y ago
  frankly, if people are so uninformed they think Saudi Arabia is run by the good guys the odds are more likely they're so uninformed that they don't know Saudi Arabia is an American ally.
umeshunni 7y ago
This was a big story in the Western media because the victim was one of their own (media person, Western educated, wrote for WaPo).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
BeetleB 7y ago
>This is a drop in the bucket of Saudi misdeeds. You would have to clarify further on this. In general, even if you ignore that Jamal was a well known person, being killed in your own embassy is newsworthy anywhere. For a long time embassies were considered a place of refuge.
- smolder 7y ago
  Saudi government helped perpetrate 9/11, so that's pretty bad. https://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-covered-up-saudi-role-in-911/ https://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-covered-up-saudi-role-i... https://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/ https://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-fun...
  - BeetleB 7y ago
    One deed is mostly speculation, whereas the other one is confirmed. Do you not see a difference?
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      The ongoing Yemen blockade then.
    - xtracto 7y ago
      >Some information has leaked from the redacted section, including a flurry of pre-9/11 phone calls between one of the hijackers’ Saudi handlers in San Diego and the Saudi Embassy, and the transfer of some $130,000 from then-Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar’s family checking account to yet another of the hijackers’ Saudi handlers in San Diego. Quite some speculation if you tell me. And I am not from the USA.
      - BeetleB 7y ago
        Are you not speculating what the money was for? And, you know, frankly - please consider the integrity of the source (NY Post). Tabloid journalism is not generally reliable, and they have a history of stating the wrong facts (i.e. lying), and it probably wouldn't be hard for me to find cases of "lying by omission". I don't have a stake in this battle. If the Saudi government was fully complicit in the attacks, it would not shake my world view. What I don't like is lowering the threshold of evidence against an entity simply because there are good reasons not to like that entity.
bennylope 7y ago
Khashoggi [resided in the US and has two US citizen children] (edit - was not a permanent resident). He had developed standing in the US, including journalistic circles (he was a journalist, after all). His murder and subsequent coverup attempts were ludicrously brazen. It [almost certainly] involved the Saudi crown prince who has been courted by the president's children/advisors.
- pseingatl 7y ago
  He lived part of the time in the US, but he wasn't a US resident or a US "person" eligible for US consular assistance under the Vienna Convention.
  - bennylope 7y ago
    My mistake, he wasn't a US permanent resident. He was merely a person residing in the US.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  Mohammed bin Salman was also feted by numerous tech industry leaders on his U.S. tour: Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Reid Hoffman, Peter Thiel, Sergey Brin & Sundar Pichai, Jack Dorsey, the list goes on and on.
jccalhoun 7y ago
I think it is because it was so blatant.
justin66 7y ago
> So this may be interpreted poorly, but why was this murder such a big story in the news? There are so many reasons. In no particular order, here are some: * There was so much detail available about what happened. By the standards of state-sanctioned assassination, it was very sloppy. * It happened in Turkey, so it's part of a trend of state actors believing they can assassinate with impunity in western countries. This makes people feel unsafe. * In the US, our leaders are siding with, or at least explicitly defending, the actors responsible for these assassinations a lot more often than is comfortable. * When you own a factory full of printing presses and one of your employees is murdered and dismembered by a government, you make a big story out of it. > Is this not in line with the average person’s perception of the Saudi government? The specifics of what happened to Jamal Khashoggi are genuinely new.
buboard 7y ago
High profile cases disproportionately affect opinions. E.g. a single photo of an dead immigrant child was enough to cause a sea change
jakeogh 7y ago
https://www.floridabulldog.org/2019/09/long-hidden-9-11-commission-interview-with-saudi-prince-bandar-released/ https://www.floridabulldog.org/2019/09/long-hidden-9-11-comm... A close associate of Al-Waleed bin Talal

dpark 7y ago

> Is this not in line with the average person’s perception of the Saudi government? No. The average person thinks we’re allies and therefore by definition Saudi Arabia is run by “good guys”.

tc313 7y ago
Are you sure that you’re not an average person? I think most people understand that Saudi Arabia doesn’t operate to the standards of Western republics.
icebraining 7y ago
That's not what the polls in the US shows; 2/3rds have a mostly or very unfavourable opinion of SA: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1624/perceptions-foreign-countries.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1624/perceptions-foreign-countr...
bryanrasmussen 7y ago
frankly, if people are so uninformed they think Saudi Arabia is run by the good guys the odds are more likely they're so uninformed that they don't know Saudi Arabia is an American ally.

umeshunni 7y ago

This was a big story in the Western media because the victim was one of their own (media person, Western educated, wrote for WaPo).

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

BeetleB 7y ago

>This is a drop in the bucket of Saudi misdeeds. You would have to clarify further on this. In general, even if you ignore that Jamal was a well known person, being killed in your own embassy is newsworthy anywhere. For a long time embassies were considered a place of refuge.

smolder 7y ago
Saudi government helped perpetrate 9/11, so that's pretty bad. https://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-covered-up-saudi-role-in-911/ https://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-covered-up-saudi-role-i... https://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/ https://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-fun...
- BeetleB 7y ago
  One deed is mostly speculation, whereas the other one is confirmed. Do you not see a difference?
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    The ongoing Yemen blockade then.
  - xtracto 7y ago
    >Some information has leaked from the redacted section, including a flurry of pre-9/11 phone calls between one of the hijackers’ Saudi handlers in San Diego and the Saudi Embassy, and the transfer of some $130,000 from then-Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar’s family checking account to yet another of the hijackers’ Saudi handlers in San Diego. Quite some speculation if you tell me. And I am not from the USA.
    - BeetleB 7y ago
      Are you not speculating what the money was for? And, you know, frankly - please consider the integrity of the source (NY Post). Tabloid journalism is not generally reliable, and they have a history of stating the wrong facts (i.e. lying), and it probably wouldn't be hard for me to find cases of "lying by omission". I don't have a stake in this battle. If the Saudi government was fully complicit in the attacks, it would not shake my world view. What I don't like is lowering the threshold of evidence against an entity simply because there are good reasons not to like that entity.

bennylope 7y ago

Khashoggi [resided in the US and has two US citizen children] (edit - was not a permanent resident). He had developed standing in the US, including journalistic circles (he was a journalist, after all). His murder and subsequent coverup attempts were ludicrously brazen. It [almost certainly] involved the Saudi crown prince who has been courted by the president's children/advisors.

pseingatl 7y ago
He lived part of the time in the US, but he wasn't a US resident or a US "person" eligible for US consular assistance under the Vienna Convention.
- bennylope 7y ago
  My mistake, he wasn't a US permanent resident. He was merely a person residing in the US.
AndrewBissell 7y ago
Mohammed bin Salman was also feted by numerous tech industry leaders on his U.S. tour: Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Reid Hoffman, Peter Thiel, Sergey Brin & Sundar Pichai, Jack Dorsey, the list goes on and on.

jccalhoun 7y ago

I think it is because it was so blatant.

justin66 7y ago

> So this may be interpreted poorly, but why was this murder such a big story in the news? There are so many reasons. In no particular order, here are some: * There was so much detail available about what happened. By the standards of state-sanctioned assassination, it was very sloppy. * It happened in Turkey, so it's part of a trend of state actors believing they can assassinate with impunity in western countries. This makes people feel unsafe. * In the US, our leaders are siding with, or at least explicitly defending, the actors responsible for these assassinations a lot more often than is comfortable. * When you own a factory full of printing presses and one of your employees is murdered and dismembered by a government, you make a big story out of it. > Is this not in line with the average person’s perception of the Saudi government? The specifics of what happened to Jamal Khashoggi are genuinely new.

buboard 7y ago

High profile cases disproportionately affect opinions. E.g. a single photo of an dead immigrant child was enough to cause a sea change

jakeogh 7y ago

https://www.floridabulldog.org/2019/09/long-hidden-9-11-commission-interview-with-saudi-prince-bandar-released/ https://www.floridabulldog.org/2019/09/long-hidden-9-11-comm... A close associate of Al-Waleed bin Talal