11 ms·

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of si

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notice that vegetarian food does not have to be heaps of vegetables or to taste bland, they're far more open to actually try it. I think it's rather a problem with chefs not being familiar with vegetarian recipes than people actually not liking it at all.

LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
Time and time again, i tryied, even in veggie only restaurants- and sorry, to say it the meals where near always disappointing. Only exception where indian restaurants and some people from a comune, who cooked delicious. My takeaway- dont eat it if for the chef, ideology comes before tastyness.
flyGuyOnTheSly 7y ago
Vegetarian food can be delicious or disgusting, just as meat can be. I wouldn't salivate over sitting down to a dinner of boiled stew beef cubes without any seasoning at all... Which is pretty much the equivalent of boiled rice and broccoli. (Standard vegetarian fare at a lot of cafeterias in North America). I noticed something yesterday... Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why. The local pizza place put a flyer in my mailbox... they have plant based pizza now with cauliflower based crusts... vegetarian peperoni and vegan cheese... two servings of vegetables in the crust alone etc etc... That's great, but why does it cost twice as much as all of the other pizzas on offer? Or all of these plant based meat patties that are coming out... twice as expensive as the admittedly more delicious meat based counterparts... and that's buying in bulk, looking for the best deal. I live in Canada, btw.
- jccooper 7y ago
  Cauliflower costs substantially more than flour, if I were to guess. The plant based patties are highly processed and much lower volume. Why would you expect these things to cost the same?
  - jfengel 7y ago
    Possibly because ingredient costs are only a small part of a restaurant's expenses. Staff, rent, utilities, cleaning, etc. make up such a huge part that the food prices can be set primarily in terms of demand. The price of inputs sets a floor on what they can charge, but even if a veggie patty cost twice as much as a beef patty, that would be $.30 rather than $.15. That doesn't justify a cost difference of $4 versus $3 in a fast food place, or $18 versus $15 in a sit-down restaurant. Lots of issues come into play, but I suspect the biggest factor is simply that the restaurant owner believes that the vegetarians self-select to spend more. And they may well be right about it, at least for now. At one time, meats were seen as a luxury (as was dining out), and if vegetarian options become popular, meat eaters insisting on "real meat" may be the ones paying a premium.
    - jccooper 7y ago
      Doubtless there's some pricing power coming into play. An "alternative" is always going to be pricier, else it wouldn't be an alternative, it would just be the thing. But: food costs are something like 25% of a restaurant's costs. Even if the parent is talking exclusively about restaurants, it seems quite reasonable if something like a cauliflower crust is >4x as expensive as something dirt cheap like a flour dough.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  If you want good vegetarian/vegan cuisine, you shouldn't go to western franchise foods. That's like going to a steak house and ordering a salad. These companies know their customers, they know they generally aren't vegetarians, so they put minimum effort/expertise into an item that few will order anyway. On the other hand, most foreign cuisines have developed good vegetarian dishes out of necessity. Some places even specialize to cater to vegetarians/vegans. That's just as capitalist as the major burger franchise next door. So take your money where your mouth is. > I live in Canada, btw. You do, but you don't have to. Just saying.
- deadmetheny 7y ago
  >Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why. What? That's nonsense. You'd be a fool to have nothing suitable for vegetarians on your menu these days, there's quite a lot of them out and about anymore. >The local pizza place put a flyer in my mailbox... they have plant based pizza now with cauliflower based crusts... vegetarian peperoni and vegan cheese... two servings of vegetables in the crust alone etc etc...That's great, but why does it cost twice as much as all of the other pizzas on offer? I own a food service establishment and price is always determined first and foremost by two things: food cost and labour cost. That sort of pizza would be a right pain to make labour-wise, and vegan cheese is very expensive (not to mention dreadfully bad, but I digress). That pizza costing twice as much as anything else sounds a bit on the extreme side but not too terribly out of line, especially if it's a rare order (I suspect it likely is). >I live in Canada, btw. Sorry to hear that, mate ;)
  - rwmurrayVT 7y ago
    I'm convinced that abomination called "cheese" never melts.
- zelly 7y ago
  In the US (likely same for Canada), livestock farmers are given huge subsidies. What a farmer pays for corn for cows is much less than you would pay to buy corn, after accounting for the difference in quality, because they get tax subsidies. So it's actually central planning (socialism) that is making plants more expensive than meat.
- sli 7y ago
  What's up with these openly anti-Canada quips being added to replies to this comment? That seems wholly unnecessary.
coldpie 7y ago
I travel to Europe about once a year and I've noticed they're far behind the US in terms of vegetarian options. In the US it's been easy to get a high quality, vegetarian meal at almost any restaurant for at least a decade (edit: at least in metro areas; perhaps rural areas are different, although I haven't noticed this personally). Meanwhile in Europe it's almost impossible to get anything resembling a full meal. Like you say, it's usually simply a meal based around meat with the meat removed. I hope things are getting better over there.
- Vinnl 7y ago
  You can't really make a statement like that about "Europe" and be right, as the amount of options really varies throughout Europe. The UK has had a lot of options for vegetarians for a while, and outside of rural areas the Netherlands is excellent as well. But Hungary, for example, was far less easy (though still very doable) last time I checked it: the vegetarians in our group had to have grilled Camembert in practically every restaurant.
- keiferski 7y ago
  Where is “Europe”? London? Athens? Budapest? Kyiv? The availability of vegetarian-friendly food varies drastically from city to city. Half of the cities in this list of “Top Vegan Cities” are in Europe: London, Berlin, Warsaw, Paris, and Prague. https://www.happycow.net/vegtopics/travel/top-vegan-friendly-cities https://www.happycow.net/vegtopics/travel/top-vegan-friendly...
  - Sharparam 7y ago
    And London is the #1 city as well. Is that person just trying to throw shade on Europe?
  - moate 7y ago
    I agree with your "Where is Europe" sentiment, but lists like this aren't super helpful. The fact that western site somehow doesn't have a single Asian city, despite veganism tracing it's roots to India, in their top 10 feels less like an objective analysis and more of a list of places the editors have visited.
nicoburns 7y ago
This has changed recently in the UK. As of the last year or so, pretty much everywhere has at least 2 or 3 decent vegetarian options.
_Microft 7y ago
Anecdote: a friend (vegetarian) studied abroad and had a scholarship that included housing and food at the canteen. Being a vegetarian made it pretty lacking in variety because the lunchs consisted of a bowl of rice or pasta, depending on which of these was the side-dish to meat that day. There was different fruit yoghurts for dessert at least ;) (Edit: removed country to not blame anyone for their cuisine)
VBprogrammer 7y ago
I'm a meat eater myself but have I have 4 vegan family members. It's amazing how the range of vegan / vegetarian food has exploded in the UK over the last few years, I think this has made it much easier to maintain a vegan diet because socially it's much easier to eat almost anywhere rather than having to pick somewhere specifically for the vegetarian options.
- wastedhours 7y ago
  Read a stat from one of the industry trade bodies that vegan takeaway order volume in the UK grew over 300% last year. Admittedly, they didn't share the actual volumes themselves so will be a low base - but there's an (shameless pun) appetite for it.
screye 7y ago
Even vegan restaurants hardly sell good food. In their attempt to make a shoddy substitute for meat dishes, they completely butcher the innate capabilities of the vegetables. I know that sounds a bit snooty, but western cuisines simply do not lend themselves well to vegetarian ingredients. India is obviously the most familiar with good veg food, but most cuisines in Asia have good vegetarian offerings. Everything from China, Thailand, Iran, Lebanon and even Eastern Africa have some if not many great veg offerings. Any cuisine that is based around spices (not necessarily the hot ones, but spice in general) is much better suited to vegetarian ingredients. What we need is for people to become slightly adventurous in the way they eat, and stop living in their food bubbles.
- derefr 7y ago
  > What we need is for people to become slightly adventurous in the way they eat, and stop living in their food bubbles. If the choice is between inventing food picky people are willing to eat, and making people less picky, inventing food seems far easier. (See also: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biology-is-mutable/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biolo...)
- wavefunction 7y ago
  The vegan/veg restaurants I've tried even in the US focused on fresh vegetables and grains in interesting and delicious ways. I've never gone to one of those places and seen fake meat though I have to admit the number of vegan/veg restaurants I've gone to in the US can be counted on one hand. I'm omnivorous by practice.
- Djvacto 7y ago
  Counter-anecdote: I have a couple of vegan restaurants near me which make dishes that are definitely imitative of meat-based dishes, but are amazing and I would rate as one of the top restaurants including all vegan or non-vegan restaurants. One does Southern Kitchen/Soul Food type stuff, and the other is turkish/middle-eastern cuisine. Not trying to detract from any points about Indian and other Asian cuisines being phenomenal for veggie dishes, just that it's not a rule that western cuisine does not lend itself well to vegetarian ingredients, but more that it's just not as developed here.
jedimastert 7y ago
POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit. It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so put it where it can do some good. And don't get me started on veg patties. I have a (very) meat loving father who got completely hooked on Boca burgers while on Weight Watchers. He'll still eat them on a regular basis, even though he looooves regular burgers, just because they're delicious. In my mind, you don't have to try to pretend to be something else to be good, especially veg sandwich patties. Latkes are amazing. Refried beans bound together with eggs, breaded and deep fried sounds amazing. Don't put yourself next to something else and force a comparison. Just be tasty.
- derefr 7y ago
  Veggie “meat equivalent” foods weren’t created to feed people too picky for tofu or chickpeas. They’re there because, pretty often, someone first decides to cook a traditionally meat-containing dish, and buys all the ingredients for it; and only then finds out (or only then considers) that some of the people they’re feeding are vegetarians; and so, to save the dish they’ve already planned, buying some veggie pseudo-meats to put in some of the food in place of the meat they were going to use, is the simplest way to ensure everyone can eat “the dish.” (Even though, if the dish is just meant to highlight or accent the flavour and texture of a meat, then what they’ve made the vegetarians is in essence an entirely different dish. The packaging on the meat-substitutes promises that it will try as hard as possible to not take your meat dish and turn it into a different dish, and many cooks believe them.)
- benj111 7y ago
  Agreed. The vegetarian things I eat, taste nice, and just happen to be vegetarian, they're not meat replaced with Quorn. Additionally, one thing I don't understand, up until recently animal rights seems to have been the main driver behind vegetarianism. If you're morally against eating pig, why would you want to eat something that pretends to be pig?
puranjay 7y ago
Western cuisine seems to fundamentally misunderstand vegetables. Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices, and partly the easy availability of meat. Meat is like a cheat code when you're cooking. A good cut of meat needs a little more than some salt and fat to taste good. With vegetables, you're forced to be more inventive. Take okra for instance. In India, its a favorite vegetable. Saute it with some Indian spices and it becomes a crunchy, flavorful dish. Whenever I've seen okra in western menus, it is usually boiled which turns it into a gooey, sticky mess. I love eating meat but I would be perfectly happy sticking to vegetarian-only food as long as I'm living in India
- jamil7 7y ago
  I think it's also a matter of Northern European climates, meat and dairy was available for most of the year while vegetables other than potatoes and onions where really only in spring and summer.
  - war1025 7y ago
    There are a whole host of root vegetables that are pretty darn tasty and basically absent from the modern American diet. Beet, Turnip, Parsnip, Rutabaga to name a few. Northern climates can and in the past have grown a wide variety of vegetables. I don't know where exactly to pin the blame for the current (but improving) state of affairs, but it isn't for lack of ability to grow a diverse set of vegetables.
    - jamil7 7y ago
      Not sure about beetroots in winter but the rest seem plausible.
- mr_overalls 7y ago
  > Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices. I see that you are unacquainted with Southern food, specifically Cajun cuisine. I cannot recommend a culinary expedition to New Orleans highly enough. It will change your life!
belorn 7y ago
In my experience, and in particular with conference food, vegetarian dishes has its own food culture and tastes. To be specific they usually do not include any pepper, garlic, chili, or herbs like parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme and cumin. Salt and umami is also often missing. Instead the cooks tries to create tastes through using different grains, seeds, fruits, salads and vegetables. Food without meat does not have to follow that culture but it is a bit like telling thai cooks to not use fish sauce, cilantro and chilies. For me if food without meat want to raise a larger audience it must first be separated from the vegetarian food culture, because not everyone like the taste of that food culture.
- wavefunction 7y ago
  I am assuming you mean some sort of Western vegetarian food culture. Vegetarian food cultures that have lasted thousands of years feature everything you've mentioned as lacking.
- mtalantikite 7y ago
  Vegetarian in NYC here. There are plenty of spices used in vegetarian food. Maybe non-veg chefs in the west don’t know how to spice food, but there are tons of spices used in veg dishes from all over the world. Typically I can judge how a restaurant is going to be if I look at the veg options on a menu — good chefs certainly know how to use spices and how to cook vegetables.
  - teddyh 7y ago
    “You’ve just never had good wine.” https://www.xkcd.com/915/ https://www.xkcd.com/915/ Every time a conference (yes, in the “western” world) has had a vegetarian food option, or proudly proclaims that their only food option is vegetarian, it has uniformly consisted of bland, barely edible, mush. I don’t really care why that is, and I don’t think this can be fixed by something I can realistically do.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  You should make friends with a family from India, and see all the spices they use in their vegetarian food.
DennisP 7y ago
My brother is a strict vegan and had no trouble on a recent trip to Germany. He used some kind of app to find restaurants with good vegan options.
randomsearch 7y ago
This comment does not describe the UK. It’s great to be veggie or vegan here.
analog31 7y ago
Vegetables are hard to prepare, especially in a production setting. Of course it has to taste good, but also not turn to mush on the trip from the kitchen to the table. Meat, especially when started with sous vide portions, is much less critical of timing and other conditions. It's a lot easier at home, and in fact, even heaps of vegetables can be quite good if they're fresh and prepared to your taste. With one vegetarian in the household, we eat great at home, but restaurants are always a coin toss.

LifeLiverTransp 7y ago

Time and time again, i tryied, even in veggie only restaurants- and sorry, to say it the meals where near always disappointing. Only exception where indian restaurants and some people from a comune, who cooked delicious. My takeaway- dont eat it if for the chef, ideology comes before tastyness.

flyGuyOnTheSly 7y ago

Vegetarian food can be delicious or disgusting, just as meat can be. I wouldn't salivate over sitting down to a dinner of boiled stew beef cubes without any seasoning at all... Which is pretty much the equivalent of boiled rice and broccoli. (Standard vegetarian fare at a lot of cafeterias in North America). I noticed something yesterday... Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why. The local pizza place put a flyer in my mailbox... they have plant based pizza now with cauliflower based crusts... vegetarian peperoni and vegan cheese... two servings of vegetables in the crust alone etc etc... That's great, but why does it cost twice as much as all of the other pizzas on offer? Or all of these plant based meat patties that are coming out... twice as expensive as the admittedly more delicious meat based counterparts... and that's buying in bulk, looking for the best deal. I live in Canada, btw.

jccooper 7y ago
Cauliflower costs substantially more than flour, if I were to guess. The plant based patties are highly processed and much lower volume. Why would you expect these things to cost the same?
- jfengel 7y ago
  Possibly because ingredient costs are only a small part of a restaurant's expenses. Staff, rent, utilities, cleaning, etc. make up such a huge part that the food prices can be set primarily in terms of demand. The price of inputs sets a floor on what they can charge, but even if a veggie patty cost twice as much as a beef patty, that would be $.30 rather than $.15. That doesn't justify a cost difference of $4 versus $3 in a fast food place, or $18 versus $15 in a sit-down restaurant. Lots of issues come into play, but I suspect the biggest factor is simply that the restaurant owner believes that the vegetarians self-select to spend more. And they may well be right about it, at least for now. At one time, meats were seen as a luxury (as was dining out), and if vegetarian options become popular, meat eaters insisting on "real meat" may be the ones paying a premium.
  - jccooper 7y ago
    Doubtless there's some pricing power coming into play. An "alternative" is always going to be pricier, else it wouldn't be an alternative, it would just be the thing. But: food costs are something like 25% of a restaurant's costs. Even if the parent is talking exclusively about restaurants, it seems quite reasonable if something like a cauliflower crust is >4x as expensive as something dirt cheap like a flour dough.
gridlockd 7y ago
If you want good vegetarian/vegan cuisine, you shouldn't go to western franchise foods. That's like going to a steak house and ordering a salad. These companies know their customers, they know they generally aren't vegetarians, so they put minimum effort/expertise into an item that few will order anyway. On the other hand, most foreign cuisines have developed good vegetarian dishes out of necessity. Some places even specialize to cater to vegetarians/vegans. That's just as capitalist as the major burger franchise next door. So take your money where your mouth is. > I live in Canada, btw. You do, but you don't have to. Just saying.
deadmetheny 7y ago
>Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why. What? That's nonsense. You'd be a fool to have nothing suitable for vegetarians on your menu these days, there's quite a lot of them out and about anymore. >The local pizza place put a flyer in my mailbox... they have plant based pizza now with cauliflower based crusts... vegetarian peperoni and vegan cheese... two servings of vegetables in the crust alone etc etc...That's great, but why does it cost twice as much as all of the other pizzas on offer? I own a food service establishment and price is always determined first and foremost by two things: food cost and labour cost. That sort of pizza would be a right pain to make labour-wise, and vegan cheese is very expensive (not to mention dreadfully bad, but I digress). That pizza costing twice as much as anything else sounds a bit on the extreme side but not too terribly out of line, especially if it's a rare order (I suspect it likely is). >I live in Canada, btw. Sorry to hear that, mate ;)
- rwmurrayVT 7y ago
  I'm convinced that abomination called "cheese" never melts.
zelly 7y ago
In the US (likely same for Canada), livestock farmers are given huge subsidies. What a farmer pays for corn for cows is much less than you would pay to buy corn, after accounting for the difference in quality, because they get tax subsidies. So it's actually central planning (socialism) that is making plants more expensive than meat.
sli 7y ago
What's up with these openly anti-Canada quips being added to replies to this comment? That seems wholly unnecessary.

coldpie 7y ago

I travel to Europe about once a year and I've noticed they're far behind the US in terms of vegetarian options. In the US it's been easy to get a high quality, vegetarian meal at almost any restaurant for at least a decade (edit: at least in metro areas; perhaps rural areas are different, although I haven't noticed this personally). Meanwhile in Europe it's almost impossible to get anything resembling a full meal. Like you say, it's usually simply a meal based around meat with the meat removed. I hope things are getting better over there.

Vinnl 7y ago
You can't really make a statement like that about "Europe" and be right, as the amount of options really varies throughout Europe. The UK has had a lot of options for vegetarians for a while, and outside of rural areas the Netherlands is excellent as well. But Hungary, for example, was far less easy (though still very doable) last time I checked it: the vegetarians in our group had to have grilled Camembert in practically every restaurant.
keiferski 7y ago
Where is “Europe”? London? Athens? Budapest? Kyiv? The availability of vegetarian-friendly food varies drastically from city to city. Half of the cities in this list of “Top Vegan Cities” are in Europe: London, Berlin, Warsaw, Paris, and Prague. https://www.happycow.net/vegtopics/travel/top-vegan-friendly-cities https://www.happycow.net/vegtopics/travel/top-vegan-friendly...
- Sharparam 7y ago
  And London is the #1 city as well. Is that person just trying to throw shade on Europe?
- moate 7y ago
  I agree with your "Where is Europe" sentiment, but lists like this aren't super helpful. The fact that western site somehow doesn't have a single Asian city, despite veganism tracing it's roots to India, in their top 10 feels less like an objective analysis and more of a list of places the editors have visited.

nicoburns 7y ago

This has changed recently in the UK. As of the last year or so, pretty much everywhere has at least 2 or 3 decent vegetarian options.

_Microft 7y ago

Anecdote: a friend (vegetarian) studied abroad and had a scholarship that included housing and food at the canteen. Being a vegetarian made it pretty lacking in variety because the lunchs consisted of a bowl of rice or pasta, depending on which of these was the side-dish to meat that day. There was different fruit yoghurts for dessert at least ;) (Edit: removed country to not blame anyone for their cuisine)

VBprogrammer 7y ago

I'm a meat eater myself but have I have 4 vegan family members. It's amazing how the range of vegan / vegetarian food has exploded in the UK over the last few years, I think this has made it much easier to maintain a vegan diet because socially it's much easier to eat almost anywhere rather than having to pick somewhere specifically for the vegetarian options.

wastedhours 7y ago
Read a stat from one of the industry trade bodies that vegan takeaway order volume in the UK grew over 300% last year. Admittedly, they didn't share the actual volumes themselves so will be a low base - but there's an (shameless pun) appetite for it.

screye 7y ago

Even vegan restaurants hardly sell good food. In their attempt to make a shoddy substitute for meat dishes, they completely butcher the innate capabilities of the vegetables. I know that sounds a bit snooty, but western cuisines simply do not lend themselves well to vegetarian ingredients. India is obviously the most familiar with good veg food, but most cuisines in Asia have good vegetarian offerings. Everything from China, Thailand, Iran, Lebanon and even Eastern Africa have some if not many great veg offerings. Any cuisine that is based around spices (not necessarily the hot ones, but spice in general) is much better suited to vegetarian ingredients. What we need is for people to become slightly adventurous in the way they eat, and stop living in their food bubbles.

derefr 7y ago
> What we need is for people to become slightly adventurous in the way they eat, and stop living in their food bubbles. If the choice is between inventing food picky people are willing to eat, and making people less picky, inventing food seems far easier. (See also: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biology-is-mutable/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biolo...)
wavefunction 7y ago
The vegan/veg restaurants I've tried even in the US focused on fresh vegetables and grains in interesting and delicious ways. I've never gone to one of those places and seen fake meat though I have to admit the number of vegan/veg restaurants I've gone to in the US can be counted on one hand. I'm omnivorous by practice.
Djvacto 7y ago
Counter-anecdote: I have a couple of vegan restaurants near me which make dishes that are definitely imitative of meat-based dishes, but are amazing and I would rate as one of the top restaurants including all vegan or non-vegan restaurants. One does Southern Kitchen/Soul Food type stuff, and the other is turkish/middle-eastern cuisine. Not trying to detract from any points about Indian and other Asian cuisines being phenomenal for veggie dishes, just that it's not a rule that western cuisine does not lend itself well to vegetarian ingredients, but more that it's just not as developed here.

jedimastert 7y ago

POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit. It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so put it where it can do some good. And don't get me started on veg patties. I have a (very) meat loving father who got completely hooked on Boca burgers while on Weight Watchers. He'll still eat them on a regular basis, even though he looooves regular burgers, just because they're delicious. In my mind, you don't have to try to pretend to be something else to be good, especially veg sandwich patties. Latkes are amazing. Refried beans bound together with eggs, breaded and deep fried sounds amazing. Don't put yourself next to something else and force a comparison. Just be tasty.

derefr 7y ago
Veggie “meat equivalent” foods weren’t created to feed people too picky for tofu or chickpeas. They’re there because, pretty often, someone first decides to cook a traditionally meat-containing dish, and buys all the ingredients for it; and only then finds out (or only then considers) that some of the people they’re feeding are vegetarians; and so, to save the dish they’ve already planned, buying some veggie pseudo-meats to put in some of the food in place of the meat they were going to use, is the simplest way to ensure everyone can eat “the dish.” (Even though, if the dish is just meant to highlight or accent the flavour and texture of a meat, then what they’ve made the vegetarians is in essence an entirely different dish. The packaging on the meat-substitutes promises that it will try as hard as possible to not take your meat dish and turn it into a different dish, and many cooks believe them.)
benj111 7y ago
Agreed. The vegetarian things I eat, taste nice, and just happen to be vegetarian, they're not meat replaced with Quorn. Additionally, one thing I don't understand, up until recently animal rights seems to have been the main driver behind vegetarianism. If you're morally against eating pig, why would you want to eat something that pretends to be pig?

puranjay 7y ago

Western cuisine seems to fundamentally misunderstand vegetables. Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices, and partly the easy availability of meat. Meat is like a cheat code when you're cooking. A good cut of meat needs a little more than some salt and fat to taste good. With vegetables, you're forced to be more inventive. Take okra for instance. In India, its a favorite vegetable. Saute it with some Indian spices and it becomes a crunchy, flavorful dish. Whenever I've seen okra in western menus, it is usually boiled which turns it into a gooey, sticky mess. I love eating meat but I would be perfectly happy sticking to vegetarian-only food as long as I'm living in India

jamil7 7y ago
I think it's also a matter of Northern European climates, meat and dairy was available for most of the year while vegetables other than potatoes and onions where really only in spring and summer.
- war1025 7y ago
  There are a whole host of root vegetables that are pretty darn tasty and basically absent from the modern American diet. Beet, Turnip, Parsnip, Rutabaga to name a few. Northern climates can and in the past have grown a wide variety of vegetables. I don't know where exactly to pin the blame for the current (but improving) state of affairs, but it isn't for lack of ability to grow a diverse set of vegetables.
  - jamil7 7y ago
    Not sure about beetroots in winter but the rest seem plausible.
mr_overalls 7y ago
> Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices. I see that you are unacquainted with Southern food, specifically Cajun cuisine. I cannot recommend a culinary expedition to New Orleans highly enough. It will change your life!

belorn 7y ago

In my experience, and in particular with conference food, vegetarian dishes has its own food culture and tastes. To be specific they usually do not include any pepper, garlic, chili, or herbs like parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme and cumin. Salt and umami is also often missing. Instead the cooks tries to create tastes through using different grains, seeds, fruits, salads and vegetables. Food without meat does not have to follow that culture but it is a bit like telling thai cooks to not use fish sauce, cilantro and chilies. For me if food without meat want to raise a larger audience it must first be separated from the vegetarian food culture, because not everyone like the taste of that food culture.

wavefunction 7y ago
I am assuming you mean some sort of Western vegetarian food culture. Vegetarian food cultures that have lasted thousands of years feature everything you've mentioned as lacking.
mtalantikite 7y ago
Vegetarian in NYC here. There are plenty of spices used in vegetarian food. Maybe non-veg chefs in the west don’t know how to spice food, but there are tons of spices used in veg dishes from all over the world. Typically I can judge how a restaurant is going to be if I look at the veg options on a menu — good chefs certainly know how to use spices and how to cook vegetables.
- teddyh 7y ago
  “You’ve just never had good wine.” https://www.xkcd.com/915/ https://www.xkcd.com/915/ Every time a conference (yes, in the “western” world) has had a vegetarian food option, or proudly proclaims that their only food option is vegetarian, it has uniformly consisted of bland, barely edible, mush. I don’t really care why that is, and I don’t think this can be fixed by something I can realistically do.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
You should make friends with a family from India, and see all the spices they use in their vegetarian food.

DennisP 7y ago

My brother is a strict vegan and had no trouble on a recent trip to Germany. He used some kind of app to find restaurants with good vegan options.

randomsearch 7y ago

This comment does not describe the UK. It’s great to be veggie or vegan here.

analog31 7y ago

Vegetables are hard to prepare, especially in a production setting. Of course it has to taste good, but also not turn to mush on the trip from the kitchen to the table. Meat, especially when started with sous vide portions, is much less critical of timing and other conditions. It's a lot easier at home, and in fact, even heaps of vegetables can be quite good if they're fresh and prepared to your taste. With one vegetarian in the household, we eat great at home, but restaurants are always a coin toss.