5 ms·

>When the proportion of meatless options doubled from one to two of four choices, overall sales remained about constant. But sales of meat-containing meals drop

>When the proportion of meatless options doubled from one to two of four choices, overall sales remained about constant. But sales of meat-containing meals dropped, and sales of vegetarian meals, such as “wild mushroom, roasted butternut squash and sun blushed tomato risotto with parmesan”, rose 40–80%. So they cut the available meat options and doubled the available vegetarian options and find it surprising they sold more vegetarian food? Making things unavailabile does tend to have that effect.

throwaway66920 7y ago
I don’t think it’s as obvious as you imply. If a menu goes from 80% meat to 20% meat, I wouldn’t have been surprised to learn that either the same proportion of customers still chose a meat option; or that fewer customers ordered anything to begin with
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  I don't think that most people go "I want meat!", they just want something that sounds good, and that's what the results are reflecting. As eating meat is the default option, it's largely done without thought - you don't internalize "I eat meat", so it has no value if you do or don't in a particular meal.
  - throwaway66920 7y ago
    Idk. I think most people read the menu and decide what sounds best, with meat options rated fairly high.
- 4ad 7y ago
  If a menu switches from 80% meat to 20% meat, I (as a meat eater) would find somewhere else to eat. On the other hand vegetarians might start to come to this place. This place might sell more vegetarian food, yet nobody will have to convert to vegetarianism. Similarly, this is about cafeterias. Sometimes food runs out. Hell, the meat option always runs out on airplanes until food gets to me. If they reduce the meat even more, no wonder that more people will eat vegetarian dishes. There's no meat left.
  - tom_mellior 7y ago
    How is reducing your choices (for one meal per weekday) to 20% of the menu about anybody having "to convert to vegetarianism"?
  - throwaway66920 7y ago
    That’s a good point. It would be neat to look at credit card data and infer how much of the customer base is new
    - tom_mellior 7y ago
      > It would be neat to look at credit card data and infer how much of the customer base is new The study did track people over time: https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116 https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116 "Linking sales data to participants’ previous meal purchases revealed that the largest effects were found in the quartile of diners with the lowest prior levels of vegetarian meal selection." So the heaviest meat eaters as a group not only did not stop going to these cafeterias, they willingly ate the vegetarian stuff.
      - mamon 7y ago
        Probably it is just laziness: if the next closest place to go for lunch is few miles away and your office cafeteria goes vegetarian then you simply find few least bad vege options and stick with them.
        tom_mellior 7y ago
        Before the intervention there were three meat options. The intervention reduced this to two meat options. How in the world is this "going vegetarian", forcing you to eat the least bad non-meat options?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ebiester 7y ago
Many people, instead, would expect the percentage of meat to vegetarian sales to remain constant, as they believe that meat-eaters wouldn't choose a vegetarian option. (And some people still don't consider it a lunch or dinner without some sort of meat.)
- throwaway_law 7y ago
  Well throw out the entire meat/non-meat idea. And instead replace meat with expensive dish and non-meat with inexpensive dish. They went from offering 1 inexpensive dish to 4 inexpensive dishes. Its really not surprising when you quadruple the number of inexpensive dishes you will see an increase in the number of inexpensive dishes sold. Now if the meat dishes were the same price as non-meat dishes you would probably still see a small spike in sale of non-meat dishes when you quadruple the number of options, but the price is to big of a variable to ignore, especially with University students.
tobylane 7y ago
It shows people pick interesting sounding options from a range with little care to whether it has meat in or not. We’re in such a meat dominated society that the current change is showing how flexible we actually are to fitting in with more eco ways of eating.
- throwaway_law 7y ago
  >It shows people pick interesting sounding options from a range with little care to whether it has meat in or not. Thats probably true, but I think more importantly it shows people pick the more inexpensive options from a range with little care to whether it has meat in or not. In other words if the non-meat dishes were more expensive than the meat dishes, the sales would have been different.
mikepurvis 7y ago
I often choose the vegetarian option when eating out simply because I know how to grill a steak or roast some chicken at home— I can make those meals just as well as they can, and for half the cost or less. When I see multiple vegetarian meal options, that's a signal that the chef isn't just doing a low effort protein swap-out but is actually offering something tasty and interesting, and I'm interested to try it.
- grawprog 7y ago
  Yeah, that's the difference I don't think they really looked at. if the quality of the vegetarian food is better than the meat offerings, that would definitely help drive sales.
- OJFord 7y ago
  > When I see multiple vegetarian meal options, that's a signal that [...] I use whether it's called something like 'vegetarian <blah>' (as a signal for the reverse). I don't want a 'vegetarian lasagne', or 'vegetarian burger'. A slightly different but similarly ridiculous one is 'vegetarian chili con carne', which means 'vegetarian chili with meat'.
  - KitDuncan 7y ago
    We just call that chili sin carne. I gave it to my non-vegan family and they couldn't tell the difference. It's a really great dish, quick to make (faster and easier than with meat), healthy, high in protein and tasty. I really don't get what the issue is here? There are also great bean/nut/mushroom burgers, that don't intend to taste like meat burgers. Why can't vegan dishes use the same form factor as non-veg dishes? Does everything just have to be a bland plate of veggies for us?
    - mikepurvis 7y ago
      I can't speak for the parent, but my feeling about it is that I don't like food pretending to be other food. So yes, serve me up a mushroom burger or a falafel burger, or a winter black bean and kale burger. But if the menu says simply "veggie burger" then there's a pretty good sign that it's an imitation and not made from whole food. Now, none of this is implying that the veggie meal should be a "bland plate of veggies", rather it's that there are whole cuisines out there with delicious plant-based meals that have stood the test of time. If I'm eating vegetarian, I want one of those meals, not a meat meal with the meat swapped out.
jacknews 7y ago
Did it say they cut the meat options? It seems they simply increased the number of vegie options from the cursory single 'meatloaf', and that did the trick. I've recently become "much more vegie", and honestly I look forward to many of the vegie meals more than those with meat. I think meat should be reserved for meals where it can really shine; steak, ribs, bacon, etc. Pies, curries, soups, casseroles, etc can often do without meat entirely, or with much less, or just with added meat stock. I think this is the first step to the future of food.

throwaway66920 7y ago

I don’t think it’s as obvious as you imply. If a menu goes from 80% meat to 20% meat, I wouldn’t have been surprised to learn that either the same proportion of customers still chose a meat option; or that fewer customers ordered anything to begin with

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
I don't think that most people go "I want meat!", they just want something that sounds good, and that's what the results are reflecting. As eating meat is the default option, it's largely done without thought - you don't internalize "I eat meat", so it has no value if you do or don't in a particular meal.
- throwaway66920 7y ago
  Idk. I think most people read the menu and decide what sounds best, with meat options rated fairly high.
4ad 7y ago
If a menu switches from 80% meat to 20% meat, I (as a meat eater) would find somewhere else to eat. On the other hand vegetarians might start to come to this place. This place might sell more vegetarian food, yet nobody will have to convert to vegetarianism. Similarly, this is about cafeterias. Sometimes food runs out. Hell, the meat option always runs out on airplanes until food gets to me. If they reduce the meat even more, no wonder that more people will eat vegetarian dishes. There's no meat left.
- tom_mellior 7y ago
  How is reducing your choices (for one meal per weekday) to 20% of the menu about anybody having "to convert to vegetarianism"?
- throwaway66920 7y ago
  That’s a good point. It would be neat to look at credit card data and infer how much of the customer base is new
  - tom_mellior 7y ago
    > It would be neat to look at credit card data and infer how much of the customer base is new The study did track people over time: https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116 https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116 "Linking sales data to participants’ previous meal purchases revealed that the largest effects were found in the quartile of diners with the lowest prior levels of vegetarian meal selection." So the heaviest meat eaters as a group not only did not stop going to these cafeterias, they willingly ate the vegetarian stuff.
    - mamon 7y ago
      Probably it is just laziness: if the next closest place to go for lunch is few miles away and your office cafeteria goes vegetarian then you simply find few least bad vege options and stick with them.
      - tom_mellior 7y ago
        Before the intervention there were three meat options. The intervention reduced this to two meat options. How in the world is this "going vegetarian", forcing you to eat the least bad non-meat options?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ebiester 7y ago

Many people, instead, would expect the percentage of meat to vegetarian sales to remain constant, as they believe that meat-eaters wouldn't choose a vegetarian option. (And some people still don't consider it a lunch or dinner without some sort of meat.)

throwaway_law 7y ago
Well throw out the entire meat/non-meat idea. And instead replace meat with expensive dish and non-meat with inexpensive dish. They went from offering 1 inexpensive dish to 4 inexpensive dishes. Its really not surprising when you quadruple the number of inexpensive dishes you will see an increase in the number of inexpensive dishes sold. Now if the meat dishes were the same price as non-meat dishes you would probably still see a small spike in sale of non-meat dishes when you quadruple the number of options, but the price is to big of a variable to ignore, especially with University students.

tobylane 7y ago

It shows people pick interesting sounding options from a range with little care to whether it has meat in or not. We’re in such a meat dominated society that the current change is showing how flexible we actually are to fitting in with more eco ways of eating.

throwaway_law 7y ago
>It shows people pick interesting sounding options from a range with little care to whether it has meat in or not. Thats probably true, but I think more importantly it shows people pick the more inexpensive options from a range with little care to whether it has meat in or not. In other words if the non-meat dishes were more expensive than the meat dishes, the sales would have been different.

mikepurvis 7y ago

I often choose the vegetarian option when eating out simply because I know how to grill a steak or roast some chicken at home— I can make those meals just as well as they can, and for half the cost or less. When I see multiple vegetarian meal options, that's a signal that the chef isn't just doing a low effort protein swap-out but is actually offering something tasty and interesting, and I'm interested to try it.

grawprog 7y ago
Yeah, that's the difference I don't think they really looked at. if the quality of the vegetarian food is better than the meat offerings, that would definitely help drive sales.
OJFord 7y ago
> When I see multiple vegetarian meal options, that's a signal that [...] I use whether it's called something like 'vegetarian <blah>' (as a signal for the reverse). I don't want a 'vegetarian lasagne', or 'vegetarian burger'. A slightly different but similarly ridiculous one is 'vegetarian chili con carne', which means 'vegetarian chili with meat'.
- KitDuncan 7y ago
  We just call that chili sin carne. I gave it to my non-vegan family and they couldn't tell the difference. It's a really great dish, quick to make (faster and easier than with meat), healthy, high in protein and tasty. I really don't get what the issue is here? There are also great bean/nut/mushroom burgers, that don't intend to taste like meat burgers. Why can't vegan dishes use the same form factor as non-veg dishes? Does everything just have to be a bland plate of veggies for us?
  - mikepurvis 7y ago
    I can't speak for the parent, but my feeling about it is that I don't like food pretending to be other food. So yes, serve me up a mushroom burger or a falafel burger, or a winter black bean and kale burger. But if the menu says simply "veggie burger" then there's a pretty good sign that it's an imitation and not made from whole food. Now, none of this is implying that the veggie meal should be a "bland plate of veggies", rather it's that there are whole cuisines out there with delicious plant-based meals that have stood the test of time. If I'm eating vegetarian, I want one of those meals, not a meat meal with the meat swapped out.

jacknews 7y ago

Did it say they cut the meat options? It seems they simply increased the number of vegie options from the cursory single 'meatloaf', and that did the trick. I've recently become "much more vegie", and honestly I look forward to many of the vegie meals more than those with meat. I think meat should be reserved for meals where it can really shine; steak, ribs, bacon, etc. Pies, curries, soups, casseroles, etc can often do without meat entirely, or with much less, or just with added meat stock. I think this is the first step to the future of food.