16 ms·

Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

208 points by sjcsjc 7y ago

ChrisAntaki 7y ago
I have so much respect for those protesters.
- loceng 7y ago
  Agreed. They've been educated about history and understand what's at stake. I wish the rest of democratic societies would already be taking a strong stand with them. The tyrannical powers in control of China at the moment, much like Trump's rise, will be countered at the HK situations wakens us to the behaviour of China's tyrants until now relative limited light being shone on their bad behaviours. Edit: Especially curious if downvotes in heavily political, democracy vs. tyrant topics are legitimate or suppression; another reason downvote mechanism is terrible: if you have something legitimate to counter, then spend any effort writing something qualitative.
  - briandear 7y ago
    > The tyrannical powers in control of China at the moment At the moment? Do you mean the past 70 years?
    - loceng 7y ago
      Of course, and still at this moment.
  - malandrew 7y ago
    It’s probably mentioning Trump that gets you downvoted. He definitely leans authoritarian on many issues, but so do most of the democrats he’s running against in 2020. Where these two flavors of authoritarian differ is the issues they are authoritarian on. Whether or not someone downvotes you probably has most to do with which issues they are most concerned about with respect to the authoritarian we get. If someone is more worried about Democrat authoritarians than Trump-flavored authoritarianism then it’s likely they’d downvote you. Having lived in China for several years, my opinion is that Warren and Sanders are probably the two politicians pushing big government ideas that if unchecked are most likely to devolve into something resembling Chinese style authoritarianism. Both are the "I know what's best for you" central planner fallacy. Unfortunately, that that think they know what's best for you are never the ones that pay the price for being wrong. China is a place where big government is never wrong and the population is disarmed just in case they disagree with the government. Anyways, that’s my theory on the downvoting you’re getting. That said, I wouldn’t worry too much about downvotes on HN these days. It’s become far more ideological on here in the past few years, that it's highly likely that you’re going to encounter downvotes out of disagreement. With tech being mainstream and a major social justice battleground, the HN on yesteryear is long gone. We've had several years of eternal september by now.
    - kmonsen 7y ago
      This is just not true. Authoritarian governments are kept in check by free speech and openness of government. Sanders and Warren are clearly if favor of citizens being in charge of the government.
      - malandrew 7y ago
        "citizens" is a term vague to the point of meaninglessness. Not sure what you're definition you're using, but pretty much all authoritarian communist governments in the 20th and 21st century had citizens in charge of the government. That didn't do a whole lot of good for the citizens that were not in charge. The DPRK is pretty much the only one where the responsibility of who was in charge was passed on from parent to child.
        kmonsen 7y ago
        I mean all citizen, not some special citizens or a few citizens. Of course if the power is in the hands of the few it doesn't matter at all which label you put on them.
        malandrew 7y ago
        Basically every form of government that has ever existed at scale has devolved into an oligarchy. I know of none where "all citizen [sic], not some special citizens or a few citizens" are in power. A Sanders or Warren government would just have power in the hands of either Sanders or Warren and their respective cabinet and the other three branches of government. It would still be "some special citizens or a few citizens". I haven't seen a single proposal from them that would have then operating any differently from any previous executive administration this country has seen since 1776. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
        andrekandre 7y ago
        > A Sanders or Warren government would just have power in the hands of either Sanders or Warren and their respective cabinet and the other three branches of government. It would still be "some special citizens or a few citizens" then what is the alternative that you propose?
  - scohesc 7y ago
    Please don't compare the Chinese government's actions to the Trump administration. They're not even remotely close.
    - loceng 7y ago
      They are absolutely leading toward the same path, outcome. If you're up for reading I've heard the book Maps of Meaning by Jordan Peterson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_Meaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_Meaning - will be a deep dive or good introduction to referencing patterns and tyrannical governments through history.
      - dkkdkdkdk 7y ago
        You are definitely being unfairly downvoted. The China shills are in full force.
    - 20190820234322 7y ago
      Trump, for all his flaws, is fundamentally a good human being, or at least is entitled to being assumed to be such simply because he grew up in a democratic country. The same cannot be said of the Chinese.
      - Pfhreak 7y ago
        I'm sorry, did you just seriously say, "The Chinese are not fundamentally good human beings"? Because I'm trying to read your comment as anything other than unbelievably racist and coming up empty.
        20190820234322 7y ago
        Are you saying that all human beings are "fundamentally good human beings"? Even Hitler?
        dang 7y ago
        Please don't feed the trolls. This is in the HN guidelines, under other wording: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
  - 20190820234322 7y ago
    HN is flooded with Chinese shills these days and I'm constantly seeing pro-China comments. Unfortunately it's such a large country so unless dang (who has been especially disappoint in this regard) is willing to put a stop to this state of affairs the downvote numbers will always be rigged.
  - salawat 7y ago
    Time to burn some karma again. Google "gent forum spies" sans quotes, look for cryptome(dot)org. Should be an article from july, 2012ish. Give it a read. It's a bit of an eye opener for the uninitiated.
    - googamooga 7y ago
      Many thanks @salawat, interesting reading indeed.
    - echelon 7y ago
      Wow, this is fascinating. Some of the topics: > Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum.. > Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation I knew this was done, but this is essentially the guide book. Jeez. I'm curious though - why didn't you directly link to it?
      - salawat 7y ago
        Because the last few threads I did I'd be near instantly downvote bombed and flagged. Particularly in Hong Kong related threads. Spread it far and wide. Never let anyone stop the Signal.
        squarefoot 7y ago
        "Because the last few threads I did I'd be near instantly downvote bombed and flagged." Upvoted, just in case... Anyway, that article comes #1 on DDG by searching that string both with or without quotes.
notTyler 7y ago
It really feels like democracy is slowly dying all over the world.
- loceng 7y ago
  This is how processes naturally strengthen themselves. A system (democracy) becomes unstable, sick, dis-eased - which highlights the gaps and weaknesses, which is in part is a lack of attention - lack of individual health, strength, leading to lacking community. Trump for example was a wakeup call for the potential energy that has been building. Hong Kong is now a wakeup call for us - and we globally need to take an economic stand against the tyrants in China's leadership as an act to punish bad behaviour + as an act to strengthen ourselves with the stresses it can put on us. Edit: Especially curious if downvotes in heavily political, democracy vs. tyrant topics are legitimate or suppression; another reason downvote mechanism is terrible: if you have something legitimate to counter, then spend any effort writing something qualitative.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > It really feels like democracy is slowly dying all over the world. If it seems that way, it's because we've stopped fighting for it. Any regime without some basic level of true democratic representation and civil liberties should be the subject of official embargoes and individual boycotts. Unfortunately, many have sold out democracy to please the all-important shareholders or just to take advantage of cheap stuff.
  - redisman 7y ago
    The supremely naive "end of history"-era thinking has a lot of inertia. Now it's unclear who's left to fight for Democracy as the old champions are all dead and current generations have no concept of what that would even mean since they've just been reaping the rewards their whole lives.
    - authoritarian 7y ago
      Ah yes, all us youngings reaping the rewards of those that have come before us. Insane housing and real estate prices that few can afford, insane university tuition that few can afford, the pharmaceutical industry pushing dangerous drugs with impunity, the war on drugs costing trillions of dollars and leading to the militarization of police and a massive amount of incarcerated non-violent offenders, the destruction of the environment being covered up and lobbied for by massive oil and gas corporations, social security being depleted before I'll ever get to utilize it, huge downturns in the economy caused by irresponsible spending and lending, and countless other "rewards" from the older generations that we now have to fix while simultaneously getting whined at about how we're all lazy slackers that are really causing the downfall of society. I don't buy into the "end of history" thinking, but it is incredible how many people take no responsibility for things that happened during their life time and completely ignore all of the extreme negative impacts those had on younger generations and society as a whole
sixothree 7y ago
I think it odd that we have to look at another country losing its rights to understand the feeling of loss. Much of what they have been doing in Hong Kong would never have been allowed here in America.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Just wait a short while. USA was not tried yet by any internal strife since 60s, and even then that was mild.
  - throwaway_law 7y ago
    How about Waco? Or the Bundy Stand off (2014 armed civilians illegally using federal lands for commercial purposes took up arms and the Federal government backed down)? Although not armed movements, how about they Occupy Movements?
    - petre 7y ago
      The Occupy protesters, although peaceful, were treated with police brutality and tear gas.
    - p9264throw 7y ago
      There was also the 1985 bombing of a neighborhood by Philadelphia police. Their target was MOVE protestors. Six adults and five kids died.
- kmonsen 7y ago
  Can you come with some concrete examples of what would have not been allowed? The US is still a very free country with robust freedom of speech and mostly fair and open court cases.
  - sixothree 7y ago
    I don't know of any places in America where you can protest wearing a mask. Even if you are "legally" allowed to, I don't believe the police would allow it. Protesters in America need permission from the government. If we were to block roads like they are doing in Hong Kong it would spell certain disaster. More than a few places offer legal protection to people who run over protesters with their vehicle.
CharlesColeman 7y ago
Will this have any practical effect on the protests? Haven't the authorities already declared that protesters are engaged in illegal activity, so what's one more act of civil disobedience? Also, aren't the "masks" worn by many of the protesters the kind of thing that's often worn in Asia for hygiene and pollution reasons, so this would ban even innocent behavior?
- hkai 7y ago
  The thing is, the ban will stay in force long after the protests are over, so that participants of peaceful assemblies can be fired from their jobs or banned from China (if they're foreigners).
- samlevine 7y ago
  Make everything illegal and selectively enforce against people the state doesn't like is a viable strategy for an authoritarian government. This might be a problem for the HK government, but I'm not sure rule of law is as big of a selling point to global capital as it used to be.
- orthoxerox 7y ago
  That's how anti-loitering laws work, for example.
- president 7y ago
  It's another tactic to justify increased force against protestors. The more "rules" that the protestors are breaking, the more the police/PLA will be empowered to assault them.
- HappySweeney 7y ago
  They've started wearing Guy Fawkes masks, which I presume is the reason for the diktat.
- smmdjdmd 7y ago
  What isn’t talked about is that the pro China people want revenge. They are seen taking photos of journalists and protestors so they can ensure those people have a hard time once the protest dies down. The anti mask law ensures they catch everyone. Most pro China people says it’s so that these protestors face justice, but their hatred for protesters is only just under the surface. You can literally tell they want to ruin these people’s lives permanently.
calderarrow 7y ago
During the American revolutionary war, France was a tremendous ally and instrumental to the colonies’ secession from Britain. The Marquis de Lafayette came over to fight for us, without pay, in his early 20s, forgoing his family’s desires and aristocratic opportunities. His family was so opposed to him going to the colonies, that local governments were involved in finding and preventing him from boarding ships. He eventually made his way over here, and fought for glory and because of his own sense of morality. Recently, I’ve been thinking about the HK scenario and wondering what I can do, but I can’t shake a nagging feeling that I could simply go over there and fight alongside the protestors. I often deflect with observations like “I don’t speak the language,” or “I don’t know what I would do to help,” and yet the thought keeps coming back. I wonder whether Lafayette would have done the same if he were alive in our time. I think the answer is he would, and that I am more of a coward than I want to believe.
- 20190820234322 7y ago
  Your heart is in the right place but it's absurd to think about "going over there and fight" - we are not living in the 19th century. We should be lobbying our governments (plural intended) for prompt and decisive military action, preferably involving the use of nuclear weapon since China will be sure to use it if we don't use it first. Japan had hoped to quickly disable US Navy by Pearl Harbor, which it nearly accomplished. The same strategy is the one we should be pursuing, only with modern weaponry.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > Recently, I’ve been thinking about the HK scenario and wondering what I can do, but I can’t shake a nagging feeling that I could simply go over there and fight alongside the protestors. I often deflect with observations like “I don’t speak the language,” or “I don’t know what I would do to help,” and yet the thought keeps coming back. I'd say do it, if you feel this way. This guy did it: https://idlewords.com/2019/08/a_walk_in_hong_kong.htm https://idlewords.com/2019/08/a_walk_in_hong_kong.htm Even if you stay on the sidelines, you could probably still help by being a witness, spreading their message, and maybe forging contacts to provide material and logistical support later. Though, be aware that pro-government propaganda is using photos of Westerners near the protests to fuel a fake-news narrative that they're being orchestrated by the CIA, but don't let stupid, uncontrollable stuff like that that stop you.
kire2345 7y ago
It has long been illegal to wear face masks at protests in Germany, as well as wearing things like bike helmets or other protection against police force. They call it "protection weapon" or "passive weapon". German police usually films every attendee of a protest. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law
- ajnin 7y ago
  Same in France. They make it illegal to bring respiratory masks or saline solution to protests, then they flood them with tear gas; they launch military-grade grenades (GLI-F4) into crowds, harming and maiming indiscriminately, and prosecute those who kick them back. And when people stop going to protests they can claim that they won the battle of ideas.
  - rjbwork 7y ago
    Liberté, égalité, fraternité, indeed.

208 points by sjcsjc 7y ago

ChrisAntaki 7y ago

I have so much respect for those protesters.

loceng 7y ago
Agreed. They've been educated about history and understand what's at stake. I wish the rest of democratic societies would already be taking a strong stand with them. The tyrannical powers in control of China at the moment, much like Trump's rise, will be countered at the HK situations wakens us to the behaviour of China's tyrants until now relative limited light being shone on their bad behaviours. Edit: Especially curious if downvotes in heavily political, democracy vs. tyrant topics are legitimate or suppression; another reason downvote mechanism is terrible: if you have something legitimate to counter, then spend any effort writing something qualitative.
- briandear 7y ago
  > The tyrannical powers in control of China at the moment At the moment? Do you mean the past 70 years?
  - loceng 7y ago
    Of course, and still at this moment.
- malandrew 7y ago
  It’s probably mentioning Trump that gets you downvoted. He definitely leans authoritarian on many issues, but so do most of the democrats he’s running against in 2020. Where these two flavors of authoritarian differ is the issues they are authoritarian on. Whether or not someone downvotes you probably has most to do with which issues they are most concerned about with respect to the authoritarian we get. If someone is more worried about Democrat authoritarians than Trump-flavored authoritarianism then it’s likely they’d downvote you. Having lived in China for several years, my opinion is that Warren and Sanders are probably the two politicians pushing big government ideas that if unchecked are most likely to devolve into something resembling Chinese style authoritarianism. Both are the "I know what's best for you" central planner fallacy. Unfortunately, that that think they know what's best for you are never the ones that pay the price for being wrong. China is a place where big government is never wrong and the population is disarmed just in case they disagree with the government. Anyways, that’s my theory on the downvoting you’re getting. That said, I wouldn’t worry too much about downvotes on HN these days. It’s become far more ideological on here in the past few years, that it's highly likely that you’re going to encounter downvotes out of disagreement. With tech being mainstream and a major social justice battleground, the HN on yesteryear is long gone. We've had several years of eternal september by now.
  - kmonsen 7y ago
    This is just not true. Authoritarian governments are kept in check by free speech and openness of government. Sanders and Warren are clearly if favor of citizens being in charge of the government.
    - malandrew 7y ago
      "citizens" is a term vague to the point of meaninglessness. Not sure what you're definition you're using, but pretty much all authoritarian communist governments in the 20th and 21st century had citizens in charge of the government. That didn't do a whole lot of good for the citizens that were not in charge. The DPRK is pretty much the only one where the responsibility of who was in charge was passed on from parent to child.
      - kmonsen 7y ago
        I mean all citizen, not some special citizens or a few citizens. Of course if the power is in the hands of the few it doesn't matter at all which label you put on them.
        malandrew 7y ago
        Basically every form of government that has ever existed at scale has devolved into an oligarchy. I know of none where "all citizen [sic], not some special citizens or a few citizens" are in power. A Sanders or Warren government would just have power in the hands of either Sanders or Warren and their respective cabinet and the other three branches of government. It would still be "some special citizens or a few citizens". I haven't seen a single proposal from them that would have then operating any differently from any previous executive administration this country has seen since 1776. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
        andrekandre 7y ago
        > A Sanders or Warren government would just have power in the hands of either Sanders or Warren and their respective cabinet and the other three branches of government. It would still be "some special citizens or a few citizens" then what is the alternative that you propose?
- scohesc 7y ago
  Please don't compare the Chinese government's actions to the Trump administration. They're not even remotely close.
  - loceng 7y ago
    They are absolutely leading toward the same path, outcome. If you're up for reading I've heard the book Maps of Meaning by Jordan Peterson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_Meaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_Meaning - will be a deep dive or good introduction to referencing patterns and tyrannical governments through history.
    - dkkdkdkdk 7y ago
      You are definitely being unfairly downvoted. The China shills are in full force.
  - 20190820234322 7y ago
    Trump, for all his flaws, is fundamentally a good human being, or at least is entitled to being assumed to be such simply because he grew up in a democratic country. The same cannot be said of the Chinese.
    - Pfhreak 7y ago
      I'm sorry, did you just seriously say, "The Chinese are not fundamentally good human beings"? Because I'm trying to read your comment as anything other than unbelievably racist and coming up empty.
      - 20190820234322 7y ago
        Are you saying that all human beings are "fundamentally good human beings"? Even Hitler?
      - dang 7y ago
        Please don't feed the trolls. This is in the HN guidelines, under other wording: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- 20190820234322 7y ago
  HN is flooded with Chinese shills these days and I'm constantly seeing pro-China comments. Unfortunately it's such a large country so unless dang (who has been especially disappoint in this regard) is willing to put a stop to this state of affairs the downvote numbers will always be rigged.
- salawat 7y ago
  Time to burn some karma again. Google "gent forum spies" sans quotes, look for cryptome(dot)org. Should be an article from july, 2012ish. Give it a read. It's a bit of an eye opener for the uninitiated.
  - googamooga 7y ago
    Many thanks @salawat, interesting reading indeed.
  - echelon 7y ago
    Wow, this is fascinating. Some of the topics: > Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum.. > Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation I knew this was done, but this is essentially the guide book. Jeez. I'm curious though - why didn't you directly link to it?
    - salawat 7y ago
      Because the last few threads I did I'd be near instantly downvote bombed and flagged. Particularly in Hong Kong related threads. Spread it far and wide. Never let anyone stop the Signal.
      - squarefoot 7y ago
        "Because the last few threads I did I'd be near instantly downvote bombed and flagged." Upvoted, just in case... Anyway, that article comes #1 on DDG by searching that string both with or without quotes.

notTyler 7y ago

It really feels like democracy is slowly dying all over the world.

loceng 7y ago
This is how processes naturally strengthen themselves. A system (democracy) becomes unstable, sick, dis-eased - which highlights the gaps and weaknesses, which is in part is a lack of attention - lack of individual health, strength, leading to lacking community. Trump for example was a wakeup call for the potential energy that has been building. Hong Kong is now a wakeup call for us - and we globally need to take an economic stand against the tyrants in China's leadership as an act to punish bad behaviour + as an act to strengthen ourselves with the stresses it can put on us. Edit: Especially curious if downvotes in heavily political, democracy vs. tyrant topics are legitimate or suppression; another reason downvote mechanism is terrible: if you have something legitimate to counter, then spend any effort writing something qualitative.
CharlesColeman 7y ago
> It really feels like democracy is slowly dying all over the world. If it seems that way, it's because we've stopped fighting for it. Any regime without some basic level of true democratic representation and civil liberties should be the subject of official embargoes and individual boycotts. Unfortunately, many have sold out democracy to please the all-important shareholders or just to take advantage of cheap stuff.
- redisman 7y ago
  The supremely naive "end of history"-era thinking has a lot of inertia. Now it's unclear who's left to fight for Democracy as the old champions are all dead and current generations have no concept of what that would even mean since they've just been reaping the rewards their whole lives.
  - authoritarian 7y ago
    Ah yes, all us youngings reaping the rewards of those that have come before us. Insane housing and real estate prices that few can afford, insane university tuition that few can afford, the pharmaceutical industry pushing dangerous drugs with impunity, the war on drugs costing trillions of dollars and leading to the militarization of police and a massive amount of incarcerated non-violent offenders, the destruction of the environment being covered up and lobbied for by massive oil and gas corporations, social security being depleted before I'll ever get to utilize it, huge downturns in the economy caused by irresponsible spending and lending, and countless other "rewards" from the older generations that we now have to fix while simultaneously getting whined at about how we're all lazy slackers that are really causing the downfall of society. I don't buy into the "end of history" thinking, but it is incredible how many people take no responsibility for things that happened during their life time and completely ignore all of the extreme negative impacts those had on younger generations and society as a whole

sixothree 7y ago

I think it odd that we have to look at another country losing its rights to understand the feeling of loss. Much of what they have been doing in Hong Kong would never have been allowed here in America.

AstralStorm 7y ago
Just wait a short while. USA was not tried yet by any internal strife since 60s, and even then that was mild.
- throwaway_law 7y ago
  How about Waco? Or the Bundy Stand off (2014 armed civilians illegally using federal lands for commercial purposes took up arms and the Federal government backed down)? Although not armed movements, how about they Occupy Movements?
  - petre 7y ago
    The Occupy protesters, although peaceful, were treated with police brutality and tear gas.
  - p9264throw 7y ago
    There was also the 1985 bombing of a neighborhood by Philadelphia police. Their target was MOVE protestors. Six adults and five kids died.
kmonsen 7y ago
Can you come with some concrete examples of what would have not been allowed? The US is still a very free country with robust freedom of speech and mostly fair and open court cases.
- sixothree 7y ago
  I don't know of any places in America where you can protest wearing a mask. Even if you are "legally" allowed to, I don't believe the police would allow it. Protesters in America need permission from the government. If we were to block roads like they are doing in Hong Kong it would spell certain disaster. More than a few places offer legal protection to people who run over protesters with their vehicle.

CharlesColeman 7y ago

Will this have any practical effect on the protests? Haven't the authorities already declared that protesters are engaged in illegal activity, so what's one more act of civil disobedience? Also, aren't the "masks" worn by many of the protesters the kind of thing that's often worn in Asia for hygiene and pollution reasons, so this would ban even innocent behavior?

hkai 7y ago
The thing is, the ban will stay in force long after the protests are over, so that participants of peaceful assemblies can be fired from their jobs or banned from China (if they're foreigners).
samlevine 7y ago
Make everything illegal and selectively enforce against people the state doesn't like is a viable strategy for an authoritarian government. This might be a problem for the HK government, but I'm not sure rule of law is as big of a selling point to global capital as it used to be.
orthoxerox 7y ago
That's how anti-loitering laws work, for example.
president 7y ago
It's another tactic to justify increased force against protestors. The more "rules" that the protestors are breaking, the more the police/PLA will be empowered to assault them.
HappySweeney 7y ago
They've started wearing Guy Fawkes masks, which I presume is the reason for the diktat.
smmdjdmd 7y ago
What isn’t talked about is that the pro China people want revenge. They are seen taking photos of journalists and protestors so they can ensure those people have a hard time once the protest dies down. The anti mask law ensures they catch everyone. Most pro China people says it’s so that these protestors face justice, but their hatred for protesters is only just under the surface. You can literally tell they want to ruin these people’s lives permanently.

calderarrow 7y ago

During the American revolutionary war, France was a tremendous ally and instrumental to the colonies’ secession from Britain. The Marquis de Lafayette came over to fight for us, without pay, in his early 20s, forgoing his family’s desires and aristocratic opportunities. His family was so opposed to him going to the colonies, that local governments were involved in finding and preventing him from boarding ships. He eventually made his way over here, and fought for glory and because of his own sense of morality. Recently, I’ve been thinking about the HK scenario and wondering what I can do, but I can’t shake a nagging feeling that I could simply go over there and fight alongside the protestors. I often deflect with observations like “I don’t speak the language,” or “I don’t know what I would do to help,” and yet the thought keeps coming back. I wonder whether Lafayette would have done the same if he were alive in our time. I think the answer is he would, and that I am more of a coward than I want to believe.

20190820234322 7y ago
Your heart is in the right place but it's absurd to think about "going over there and fight" - we are not living in the 19th century. We should be lobbying our governments (plural intended) for prompt and decisive military action, preferably involving the use of nuclear weapon since China will be sure to use it if we don't use it first. Japan had hoped to quickly disable US Navy by Pearl Harbor, which it nearly accomplished. The same strategy is the one we should be pursuing, only with modern weaponry.
CharlesColeman 7y ago
> Recently, I’ve been thinking about the HK scenario and wondering what I can do, but I can’t shake a nagging feeling that I could simply go over there and fight alongside the protestors. I often deflect with observations like “I don’t speak the language,” or “I don’t know what I would do to help,” and yet the thought keeps coming back. I'd say do it, if you feel this way. This guy did it: https://idlewords.com/2019/08/a_walk_in_hong_kong.htm https://idlewords.com/2019/08/a_walk_in_hong_kong.htm Even if you stay on the sidelines, you could probably still help by being a witness, spreading their message, and maybe forging contacts to provide material and logistical support later. Though, be aware that pro-government propaganda is using photos of Westerners near the protests to fuel a fake-news narrative that they're being orchestrated by the CIA, but don't let stupid, uncontrollable stuff like that that stop you.

kire2345 7y ago

It has long been illegal to wear face masks at protests in Germany, as well as wearing things like bike helmets or other protection against police force. They call it "protection weapon" or "passive weapon". German police usually films every attendee of a protest. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law

ajnin 7y ago
Same in France. They make it illegal to bring respiratory masks or saline solution to protests, then they flood them with tear gas; they launch military-grade grenades (GLI-F4) into crowds, harming and maiming indiscriminately, and prosecute those who kick them back. And when people stop going to protests they can claim that they won the battle of ideas.
- rjbwork 7y ago
  Liberté, égalité, fraternité, indeed.