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Can we give french citizens the benefit of the doubt here. Living there I can tell you the resident are much quicker to point out these new systems as fascist t

by yardie 7y ago

Can we give french citizens the benefit of the doubt here. Living there I can tell you the resident are much quicker to point out these new systems as fascist than, say, Americans. Even in Paris, the number of surveillance cameras was dramatically lower than London. The police would tout the crime fighting advantages of having these cameras in certain areas, someone would write an opinion on Nazi occupied Paris, the camera talk would go dormant for a few more years. New director arrives and wants to install cameras in certain areas...

20190820234322 7y ago
Agreed. Although it may not sound politically correct to say this, actions must be interpreted in light of the quality of the humans who performed them.
black_puppydog 7y ago
First, I think the argument is not against how French citizens deal with this, but how the government is pushing this stuff to begin with. Second, I'd like to agree with you, I really would. BUT: After the charlie hebdo and bataclan attacks, seeing... * completely unopposed état "d'urgence" being prolonged for TWO YEARS when the real urgency was over within a few days * the way that it was abused [1], and largely not discussed let alone really opposed in public or by my relatively tech savvy colleagues and friends in private conversation * how some of the most outrageous parts have been made into regular law now * how we still have military patrolling everywhere * bag checks at university lecture halls (seen yesterday) * the vigipirate logo (which looks like straight out of a dystopian scifi comic [2]) plastered all over town * the kindergarden on my way to work still being surrounded with concrete barriers blocking the parking, to ostensibly (and practically completely irrelevantly, given the geometry of the place) block a car from driving through the fence after all of that, I have little to no confidence that France is any less prone to a slide into totalitarianism than any other country. :( [1]: https://wiki.laquadrature.net/%C3%89tat_urgence/Recensement https://wiki.laquadrature.net/%C3%89tat_urgence/Recensement [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigipirate#/media/File:Vigipirate_2014.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigipirate#/media/File:Vigipir...

by yardie 7y ago

20190820234322 7y ago

Agreed. Although it may not sound politically correct to say this, actions must be interpreted in light of the quality of the humans who performed them.

black_puppydog 7y ago

First, I think the argument is not against how French citizens deal with this, but how the government is pushing this stuff to begin with. Second, I'd like to agree with you, I really would. BUT: After the charlie hebdo and bataclan attacks, seeing... * completely unopposed état "d'urgence" being prolonged for TWO YEARS when the real urgency was over within a few days * the way that it was abused [1], and largely not discussed let alone really opposed in public or by my relatively tech savvy colleagues and friends in private conversation * how some of the most outrageous parts have been made into regular law now * how we still have military patrolling everywhere * bag checks at university lecture halls (seen yesterday) * the vigipirate logo (which looks like straight out of a dystopian scifi comic [2]) plastered all over town * the kindergarden on my way to work still being surrounded with concrete barriers blocking the parking, to ostensibly (and practically completely irrelevantly, given the geometry of the place) block a car from driving through the fence after all of that, I have little to no confidence that France is any less prone to a slide into totalitarianism than any other country. :( [1]: https://wiki.laquadrature.net/%C3%89tat_urgence/Recensement https://wiki.laquadrature.net/%C3%89tat_urgence/Recensement [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigipirate#/media/File:Vigipirate_2014.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigipirate#/media/File:Vigipir...