3 ms·

I think Haskell is conceptually cool, but I just can't stand its symbols and grammars. To me, "=>" means comparison and "|" means an OR, and I'm cringed to see

by euske 7y ago

I think Haskell is conceptually cool, but I just can't stand its symbols and grammars. To me, "=>" means comparison and "|" means an OR, and I'm cringed to see $s and \s in a program code that makes it look like LaTeX. I also prefer the boundary of terms and expressions to be consistently marked up with parenthesis. I know this is just a matter of taste, but sometimes it affects your motivation a lot.

ggm 7y ago
I have had this the syntax is horrid conversation many times. I share your traits of how symbols are seen and mentally spoken clouding the concept. My adversaries argue from positions of clearly complete comprehension of the algebraic intent of these 'words' and they can't understand my confusion. It's like arguing with a native English speaker about illogical spelling, it just gets a "get over it" response.
ur-whale 7y ago
I 100% agree. Haskell is a very sad story in that regard: the language brings tons of cool features to the table only to turn away most of its potential customers because of how ugly and weird it looks.
jolmg 7y ago
> "=>" means comparison In what language? Did you mean ">=" or "<="? They mean the exact same thing in Haskell. > "|" means an OR It also means the same thing in Haskell. data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a "data of type `Maybe a` is either `Nothing` OR `Just a`." max a b | a > b = a | otherwise = b "max of a and b is either a when a > b OR b otherwise." odd x || x >= 5 "x is odd OR x is greater than or equal to 5" A cool thing about Haskell is that it lets you define new operators. In the parsec package, you get the operator <|>, which keeps the meaning of OR but works with parsers. csvCell = csvQuotedCell <|> csvNonQuotedCell "a CSV cell is either a quoted cell OR a non-quoted cell". > I'm cringed to see $s and \s in a program code that makes it look like LaTeX I don't think they're so common that the comparison is valid. $s implies Template Haskell, which should be used sparingly. \s implies lambdas, which are nowhere near as common as the use of backslashes in LaTex. > I also prefer the boundary of terms and expressions to be consistently marked up with parenthesis. The way you wrote this, makes me think you prefer to write 2 + 5 * 2 as 2 + (5 * 2). You can do that, just like in any other language. I don't think it's common to add parenthesis redundantly in any language though. If you actually meant something like preferring f x y to be written as f(x, y), it's not just a matter of taste. It's so the syntax makes sense with partial application. You can do f x y = ... g = f x h = g y and it would be more confusing to write f(x, y) = ... g = f(x) h = g(y)
- tome 7y ago
  > $s implies Template Haskell I think it's more likely to mean function application ...
  - jolmg 7y ago
    At least, I've never seen someone use the `$` operator and put the right operand without any spacing in between. Not only would it cause errors on activating Template Haskell because GHC would interpret it as a TH splice[1], but also it would be weird to read because one tends to use the `$` operator when they have a multi-term expression they would otherwise not want to parenthesize. For example, take a look at this line in Yesod[2]: $logInfo $ pack $ show (a, b, c) The one without a space is a Template Haskell splice and the ones with a space are using the function application operator. If logInfo didn't need to be expanded by Template Haskell and we deactivate that extension, we could write: logInfo $pack $show (a, b, c) But I doubt anyone would because the implied parentheses around those operators are: (logInfo) $((pack) $((show) (a, b, c))) [1] https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/7.8.4/docs/html/users_guide/template-haskell.html https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/7.8.4/docs/html/users_gui... [2] https://github.com/yesodweb/yesod/blob/c8aeb61ace568cdc2bc81d54f75c1a7d40ad3324/yesod-core/helloworld.hs#L40 https://github.com/yesodweb/yesod/blob/c8aeb61ace568cdc2bc81...
    - tome 7y ago
      Yes, but I suspect euske, being unfamiliar with Haskell, just used an unfamiliar form.

by euske 7y ago

ggm 7y ago

I have had this the syntax is horrid conversation many times. I share your traits of how symbols are seen and mentally spoken clouding the concept. My adversaries argue from positions of clearly complete comprehension of the algebraic intent of these 'words' and they can't understand my confusion. It's like arguing with a native English speaker about illogical spelling, it just gets a "get over it" response.

ur-whale 7y ago

I 100% agree. Haskell is a very sad story in that regard: the language brings tons of cool features to the table only to turn away most of its potential customers because of how ugly and weird it looks.

jolmg 7y ago

> "=>" means comparison In what language? Did you mean ">=" or "<="? They mean the exact same thing in Haskell. > "|" means an OR It also means the same thing in Haskell. data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a "data of type `Maybe a` is either `Nothing` OR `Just a`." max a b | a > b = a | otherwise = b "max of a and b is either a when a > b OR b otherwise." odd x || x >= 5 "x is odd OR x is greater than or equal to 5" A cool thing about Haskell is that it lets you define new operators. In the parsec package, you get the operator <|>, which keeps the meaning of OR but works with parsers. csvCell = csvQuotedCell <|> csvNonQuotedCell "a CSV cell is either a quoted cell OR a non-quoted cell". > I'm cringed to see $s and \s in a program code that makes it look like LaTeX I don't think they're so common that the comparison is valid. $s implies Template Haskell, which should be used sparingly. \s implies lambdas, which are nowhere near as common as the use of backslashes in LaTex. > I also prefer the boundary of terms and expressions to be consistently marked up with parenthesis. The way you wrote this, makes me think you prefer to write 2 + 5 * 2 as 2 + (5 * 2). You can do that, just like in any other language. I don't think it's common to add parenthesis redundantly in any language though. If you actually meant something like preferring f x y to be written as f(x, y), it's not just a matter of taste. It's so the syntax makes sense with partial application. You can do f x y = ... g = f x h = g y and it would be more confusing to write f(x, y) = ... g = f(x) h = g(y)

tome 7y ago
> $s implies Template Haskell I think it's more likely to mean function application ...
- jolmg 7y ago
  At least, I've never seen someone use the `$` operator and put the right operand without any spacing in between. Not only would it cause errors on activating Template Haskell because GHC would interpret it as a TH splice[1], but also it would be weird to read because one tends to use the `$` operator when they have a multi-term expression they would otherwise not want to parenthesize. For example, take a look at this line in Yesod[2]: $logInfo $ pack $ show (a, b, c) The one without a space is a Template Haskell splice and the ones with a space are using the function application operator. If logInfo didn't need to be expanded by Template Haskell and we deactivate that extension, we could write: logInfo $pack $show (a, b, c) But I doubt anyone would because the implied parentheses around those operators are: (logInfo) $((pack) $((show) (a, b, c))) [1] https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/7.8.4/docs/html/users_guide/template-haskell.html https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/7.8.4/docs/html/users_gui... [2] https://github.com/yesodweb/yesod/blob/c8aeb61ace568cdc2bc81d54f75c1a7d40ad3324/yesod-core/helloworld.hs#L40 https://github.com/yesodweb/yesod/blob/c8aeb61ace568cdc2bc81...
  - tome 7y ago
    Yes, but I suspect euske, being unfamiliar with Haskell, just used an unfamiliar form.