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so what would you have expected them to do, break the law? when they said no to the FBI they did it while respecting the law. should they just have quit the ent

by zuppy 7y ago

so what would you have expected them to do, break the law? when they said no to the FBI they did it while respecting the law. should they just have quit the entire chinese market?

freeone3000 7y ago
Yes.
icelancer 7y ago
I would expect them to allow users to sideload applications easily so they can continue their protests in a form of mild malicious compliance. That's the least they owe their users.
curt15 7y ago
The best test of any company's espoused "principles" is when it is forced to make inconvenient choices.
- undersuit 7y ago
  Correct! Apple isn't surprised by the actions China took to get to this point. They've had their chances to stop, complain, and fight.
oh_sigh 7y ago
In that case, apple shouldn't say that they care about user privacy. They should say they care about user privacy as much as the government where they happen to be operating does.
realusername 7y ago
I should be able to install any app I want from a download link, that's what I expect. Apple has no business to make a decision about user choices.
- kome 7y ago
  no smartphone works like this tho, literally none. that's what activist à la Stallman always pointed out. and they were right , ofc.
  - realusername 7y ago
    Oh yeah, Android is also completely broken by design, I'm not advocating for the way it works there either.
    - magduf 7y ago
      No, it's not. It's not perfect, nor is it trivially easy, but it is possible to side-load apps on an Android phone.
      - realusername 7y ago
        It should be something the common user can do, right now you need to go to enable some obscure and scary sounding settings to enable that, that's unreasonable.
        magduf 7y ago
        It doesn't matter if it's "unreasonable". The key is that it's possible. It's not possible at all on Apple devices, so Android is superior in this regard.
  - progman32 7y ago
    Every android phone I've owned can install apks just by opening them in the file manager. Not all Android phones allow this, but many do. On top of that many brands (asus, oneplus, even some Chinese brands) let you unlock the bootloader with official tools. Using this you can take full control. So it's far from 'none'. I recently bought a zenfone 6 because it satisfies this criterion. Asus is even sending devices to alternative os developers to help them out. So we can choose to not support walled gardens, and it's not even hard. It's a question of getting people to value software freedom higher.
ArchD 7y ago
Which law, exactly?
ekianjo 7y ago
Yeah, breaking the Law can be totally justified. Unless you want to behave like a slave company.
- jtx22 7y ago
  When you break the law, you have to be ready to deal with the consequences. Apple's shareholders are not ready for said consequences.
- zuppy 7y ago
  That's stupid. Braking the law is never justified. Companies have to take care of the money that the stockholders invested into them.
jonas21 7y ago
> should they just have quit the entire chinese market? yes?
- jiveturkey 7y ago
  It's not just consumer sales. The manufacturing pipeline is dependent on China. It would end Apple. You may as well ask, if Apple got an NSL, should they quit the entire US market? Or should they comply.

by zuppy 7y ago

so what would you have expected them to do, break the law? when they said no to the FBI they did it while respecting the law. should they just have quit the entire chinese market?

freeone3000 7y ago

Yes.

icelancer 7y ago

I would expect them to allow users to sideload applications easily so they can continue their protests in a form of mild malicious compliance. That's the least they owe their users.

curt15 7y ago

The best test of any company's espoused "principles" is when it is forced to make inconvenient choices.

undersuit 7y ago
Correct! Apple isn't surprised by the actions China took to get to this point. They've had their chances to stop, complain, and fight.

oh_sigh 7y ago

In that case, apple shouldn't say that they care about user privacy. They should say they care about user privacy as much as the government where they happen to be operating does.

realusername 7y ago

I should be able to install any app I want from a download link, that's what I expect. Apple has no business to make a decision about user choices.

kome 7y ago
no smartphone works like this tho, literally none. that's what activist à la Stallman always pointed out. and they were right , ofc.
- realusername 7y ago
  Oh yeah, Android is also completely broken by design, I'm not advocating for the way it works there either.
  - magduf 7y ago
    No, it's not. It's not perfect, nor is it trivially easy, but it is possible to side-load apps on an Android phone.
    - realusername 7y ago
      It should be something the common user can do, right now you need to go to enable some obscure and scary sounding settings to enable that, that's unreasonable.
      - magduf 7y ago
        It doesn't matter if it's "unreasonable". The key is that it's possible. It's not possible at all on Apple devices, so Android is superior in this regard.
- progman32 7y ago
  Every android phone I've owned can install apks just by opening them in the file manager. Not all Android phones allow this, but many do. On top of that many brands (asus, oneplus, even some Chinese brands) let you unlock the bootloader with official tools. Using this you can take full control. So it's far from 'none'. I recently bought a zenfone 6 because it satisfies this criterion. Asus is even sending devices to alternative os developers to help them out. So we can choose to not support walled gardens, and it's not even hard. It's a question of getting people to value software freedom higher.

ArchD 7y ago

Which law, exactly?

ekianjo 7y ago

Yeah, breaking the Law can be totally justified. Unless you want to behave like a slave company.

jtx22 7y ago
When you break the law, you have to be ready to deal with the consequences. Apple's shareholders are not ready for said consequences.
zuppy 7y ago
That's stupid. Braking the law is never justified. Companies have to take care of the money that the stockholders invested into them.

jonas21 7y ago

> should they just have quit the entire chinese market? yes?

jiveturkey 7y ago
It's not just consumer sales. The manufacturing pipeline is dependent on China. It would end Apple. You may as well ask, if Apple got an NSL, should they quit the entire US market? Or should they comply.