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A startup school for a singular technical solution that has now gone years without any demonstrable killer app and which faces immense scaling and regulatory hu

by egloo 7y ago

A startup school for a singular technical solution that has now gone years without any demonstrable killer app and which faces immense scaling and regulatory hurdles seems like putting the cart well before the horse here. I very much doubt that the key roadblock to realizing the crypto dream has been the lack of availability of a startup school around it.

rapsey 7y ago
They are probably desperate to prevent all their investments in the crypto sector to fizzle out. A scenario more likely by the day.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  As computers branched out from the math discipline very quickly there was also a need for formal education that only focused on computers. Without a shared advanced level of understanding it made collaboration all the more difficult, and people’s investments in the space all the more impossible. It is a time tested strategy. It doesn't matter if it doesn't pan out, it is just as good if they all synthesize the idea that this is not economical for anyone and conclude not to pursue this technology anymore. The body of work will still be a worthwhile experiment. But now imagine if they did increase the utility of this technology.
ackbar03 7y ago
Agreed, this one's a head scratcher
- tempsy 7y ago
  Why is it a head scratcher? They’ve made some of the bigger bets in crypto and have a dedicated crypto team, so they have every incentive to invest in training or teaching the next gen of crypto founders.
forgingahead 7y ago
Perhaps you're right, but so what? If they're funding it, and folks are interested in trying it out, what's the worst that can happen? Best case some new innovation comes out, worse case they end up back where they started. Journey and not the destination and all that.
- Nursie 7y ago
  Worst case is it adds to the wasteful hype-train and significant portions of the tech industry continue to be way-layed by a shiny boondoggle with get-rich-quick connotations.
krzkaczor 7y ago
I work in crypto space myself and I can tell that this space is really interesting. Both technical and business challenges are quite unique. Here's just a quick recap of different, new business models https://medium.com/abridged-io/web3-business-models-in-the-wild-fdbc93f9713b https://medium.com/abridged-io/web3-business-models-in-the-w... IMO things like DeFi are finally a good use case for blockchain. So yeah, I think this a good idea to create a startup school focused on new, different area witch can disrupt the finance sector. Disclaimer: I work for MakerDAO.
- rapsey 7y ago
  No one ever said the space is not interesting. It's just goes against human nature and how the world operates. The difference between a failed idea and a successful one is very often simply timing. Things that were complete nonsense in the dot com bubble are billion dollar businesses now. The crypto space is not for this time (imo).
  - fcolas 7y ago
    You're right that timing is key, however: >> Crypto = Trust (100%) << which is why (in my viewpoint) it matters a great deal, and there's just no way back. Trust is required for monetary exchange, but not only. It also matters where very strong guarantees are needed, which is everywhere, e.g., when setting up contracts or when making statements (expert or regulated) about a product, service, or a status. Trust matters because then the whole value-chain gets more efficient, rapid, and cost-effective.
    - rapsey 7y ago
      Unfortunately people are not 100% trustable, devices are not 100% secure and code is not 100% perfect. If someone steals my credit number, I will likely not be on the hook for the money and will not lose anything. If I make a mistake during banking, I can turn to people at the bank about it.
      - fcolas 7y ago
theboywho 7y ago
One of Blockchain's killer apps is...Bitcoin. There is no need to talk about "the crypto dream", people are using what they find useful (coinbase is currently #5 top YC company), and I personally see it inevitable that everything in banking/finance will move to a decentralized model, with smart contracts as a driving force, because of autonomy. Humans haven't really evolved much from say other Apes (or many more other animals) in the way a group is organised. We haven't yet discovered a way to organise a group without the need for a central entity (an alpha male, a government, central banks, etc.) Smart contracts allowing for autonomous organisations might well be the first time a species is organising itself without a central entity.
- Stevvo 7y ago
  Smart Contracts are far more capable on Ethereum, so I don't see Bitcoin as the killer app.
  - theboywho 7y ago
    Well bitcoin is a killer app, I didn't talk about it being _the_ killer app. I also don't think it's smart to compare and take sides when it comes to technology, Bitcoin and Ethereum are both interesting technologies, and one can learn a lot from both.
- paulgb 7y ago
  > We haven't yet discovered a way to organise a group without the need for a central entity (an alpha male, a government, central banks, etc.) Markets (at least, free markets) are exactly a way of organizing a group without the need for a central authority.
  - arethuza 7y ago
    How many markets have there been in history that don't have some kind of central authority involved - to issue the money used if nothing else? Edit: Of course there have been barter based markets, but aren't markets actually more effective when there is a central authority?
electic 7y ago
There will never be a singular killer app for crypto. Just like there isn't a killer app for USD or Gold. It is the aggregate adoption, as a transfer of value, across numerous use cases that makes any currency valued.
- paulgb 7y ago
  How about a lower bar, then: has blockchain/crypto tech ever been demonstrated to be economically viable for anything besides a store of value? There has been a ton of hype about e.g. Cryptokitties but it seems to follow a hype and bust cycle every single time.
  - stale2002 7y ago
    > How about a lower bar, then: has blockchain/crypto tech ever been demonstrated to be economically viable for anything besides a store of value? Yes. Sending censorship resistant transactions. If you look at crypto, you will see that it has, in general, for whatever reason, been censored less often than things like bank or credit card transactions.
  - lawn 7y ago
    Let me have a go then: 1. A way for businesses that cannot get a bank account to accept digital payments. Think porn sites or marijuana stores. 2. It's used on darknet markets for obvious reasons. 3. You can use it to pay for things even without a bank account. 4. Send money to anyone from anywhere. 5. It can be used as a decentralized timestamping service[0]. 6. Lower fees than other digital payments (credit cards take 1-4% fee per transaction, plus other costs). Cryptokitties is just like Beanie Babies and in my opinion not very interesting. [0]: https://whycryptocurrencies.com/timestamping_service.html https://whycryptocurrencies.com/timestamping_service.html
  - magna7 7y ago
    How about borrowing and lending using MakerDAO and Compound? Or, a decentralized prediction market through Augur? Or, decentralized derivatives through dYdX? Once the Oracle Problem is solved, you'll be able to trustlessly buy synthetic decentralized shares of the S&P500 without using a brokerage. Some people have already done this as a proof of concept.
buboard 7y ago
making bitcoin the digital gold of our age is quite a killer app i d say
chrisseaton 7y ago
> a singular technical solution that has now gone years without any demonstrable killer app But cryptography underpins all the killer apps! If you need to communicate, then you need cryptography.
- simias 7y ago
  This is about cryptocurrencies, not cryptography.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - notacoward 7y ago
    Yes, isn't it annoying how the contraction "crypto" has been taken over by one very specific (and IMO rather pedestrian) application of cryptography, after decades of more general use? GP illustrates exactly why this is so problematic.
elmar 7y ago
Interesting to see A16Z trying to get on the really early investing as YC is going upstream to latter investing.
biolurker1 7y ago
there are very many comments like yours for years now. Actually the killer app is Bitcoin because billions are being transacted every day in value but still arguing about blockchain it seems that literally all of the tech leaders of our time agree the technology is sound, promising and the future. Literally everyone (I can list names here too). The thing is that many cowboys didn't get cars at first..
stale2002 7y ago
> without any demonstrable killer app It seems like crypto currencies have worked pretty well for sending censorship resistant transactions. This is demonstrated by, for whatever reason, cryptocurrency transactions have generally been censored much less often when compared to, say, bank or credit card transactions.

by egloo 7y ago

rapsey 7y ago

They are probably desperate to prevent all their investments in the crypto sector to fizzle out. A scenario more likely by the day.

rolltiide 7y ago
As computers branched out from the math discipline very quickly there was also a need for formal education that only focused on computers. Without a shared advanced level of understanding it made collaboration all the more difficult, and people’s investments in the space all the more impossible. It is a time tested strategy. It doesn't matter if it doesn't pan out, it is just as good if they all synthesize the idea that this is not economical for anyone and conclude not to pursue this technology anymore. The body of work will still be a worthwhile experiment. But now imagine if they did increase the utility of this technology.

ackbar03 7y ago

Agreed, this one's a head scratcher

tempsy 7y ago
Why is it a head scratcher? They’ve made some of the bigger bets in crypto and have a dedicated crypto team, so they have every incentive to invest in training or teaching the next gen of crypto founders.

forgingahead 7y ago

Perhaps you're right, but so what? If they're funding it, and folks are interested in trying it out, what's the worst that can happen? Best case some new innovation comes out, worse case they end up back where they started. Journey and not the destination and all that.

Nursie 7y ago
Worst case is it adds to the wasteful hype-train and significant portions of the tech industry continue to be way-layed by a shiny boondoggle with get-rich-quick connotations.

krzkaczor 7y ago

I work in crypto space myself and I can tell that this space is really interesting. Both technical and business challenges are quite unique. Here's just a quick recap of different, new business models https://medium.com/abridged-io/web3-business-models-in-the-wild-fdbc93f9713b https://medium.com/abridged-io/web3-business-models-in-the-w... IMO things like DeFi are finally a good use case for blockchain. So yeah, I think this a good idea to create a startup school focused on new, different area witch can disrupt the finance sector. Disclaimer: I work for MakerDAO.

rapsey 7y ago
No one ever said the space is not interesting. It's just goes against human nature and how the world operates. The difference between a failed idea and a successful one is very often simply timing. Things that were complete nonsense in the dot com bubble are billion dollar businesses now. The crypto space is not for this time (imo).
- fcolas 7y ago
  You're right that timing is key, however: >> Crypto = Trust (100%) << which is why (in my viewpoint) it matters a great deal, and there's just no way back. Trust is required for monetary exchange, but not only. It also matters where very strong guarantees are needed, which is everywhere, e.g., when setting up contracts or when making statements (expert or regulated) about a product, service, or a status. Trust matters because then the whole value-chain gets more efficient, rapid, and cost-effective.
  - rapsey 7y ago
    Unfortunately people are not 100% trustable, devices are not 100% secure and code is not 100% perfect. If someone steals my credit number, I will likely not be on the hook for the money and will not lose anything. If I make a mistake during banking, I can turn to people at the bank about it.
    - fcolas 7y ago

theboywho 7y ago

One of Blockchain's killer apps is...Bitcoin. There is no need to talk about "the crypto dream", people are using what they find useful (coinbase is currently #5 top YC company), and I personally see it inevitable that everything in banking/finance will move to a decentralized model, with smart contracts as a driving force, because of autonomy. Humans haven't really evolved much from say other Apes (or many more other animals) in the way a group is organised. We haven't yet discovered a way to organise a group without the need for a central entity (an alpha male, a government, central banks, etc.) Smart contracts allowing for autonomous organisations might well be the first time a species is organising itself without a central entity.

Stevvo 7y ago
Smart Contracts are far more capable on Ethereum, so I don't see Bitcoin as the killer app.
- theboywho 7y ago
  Well bitcoin is a killer app, I didn't talk about it being _the_ killer app. I also don't think it's smart to compare and take sides when it comes to technology, Bitcoin and Ethereum are both interesting technologies, and one can learn a lot from both.
paulgb 7y ago
> We haven't yet discovered a way to organise a group without the need for a central entity (an alpha male, a government, central banks, etc.) Markets (at least, free markets) are exactly a way of organizing a group without the need for a central authority.
- arethuza 7y ago
  How many markets have there been in history that don't have some kind of central authority involved - to issue the money used if nothing else? Edit: Of course there have been barter based markets, but aren't markets actually more effective when there is a central authority?

electic 7y ago

There will never be a singular killer app for crypto. Just like there isn't a killer app for USD or Gold. It is the aggregate adoption, as a transfer of value, across numerous use cases that makes any currency valued.

paulgb 7y ago
How about a lower bar, then: has blockchain/crypto tech ever been demonstrated to be economically viable for anything besides a store of value? There has been a ton of hype about e.g. Cryptokitties but it seems to follow a hype and bust cycle every single time.
- stale2002 7y ago
  > How about a lower bar, then: has blockchain/crypto tech ever been demonstrated to be economically viable for anything besides a store of value? Yes. Sending censorship resistant transactions. If you look at crypto, you will see that it has, in general, for whatever reason, been censored less often than things like bank or credit card transactions.
- lawn 7y ago
  Let me have a go then: 1. A way for businesses that cannot get a bank account to accept digital payments. Think porn sites or marijuana stores. 2. It's used on darknet markets for obvious reasons. 3. You can use it to pay for things even without a bank account. 4. Send money to anyone from anywhere. 5. It can be used as a decentralized timestamping service[0]. 6. Lower fees than other digital payments (credit cards take 1-4% fee per transaction, plus other costs). Cryptokitties is just like Beanie Babies and in my opinion not very interesting. [0]: https://whycryptocurrencies.com/timestamping_service.html https://whycryptocurrencies.com/timestamping_service.html
- magna7 7y ago
  How about borrowing and lending using MakerDAO and Compound? Or, a decentralized prediction market through Augur? Or, decentralized derivatives through dYdX? Once the Oracle Problem is solved, you'll be able to trustlessly buy synthetic decentralized shares of the S&P500 without using a brokerage. Some people have already done this as a proof of concept.

buboard 7y ago

making bitcoin the digital gold of our age is quite a killer app i d say

chrisseaton 7y ago

> a singular technical solution that has now gone years without any demonstrable killer app But cryptography underpins all the killer apps! If you need to communicate, then you need cryptography.

simias 7y ago
This is about cryptocurrencies, not cryptography.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- notacoward 7y ago
  Yes, isn't it annoying how the contraction "crypto" has been taken over by one very specific (and IMO rather pedestrian) application of cryptography, after decades of more general use? GP illustrates exactly why this is so problematic.

elmar 7y ago

Interesting to see A16Z trying to get on the really early investing as YC is going upstream to latter investing.

biolurker1 7y ago

there are very many comments like yours for years now. Actually the killer app is Bitcoin because billions are being transacted every day in value but still arguing about blockchain it seems that literally all of the tech leaders of our time agree the technology is sound, promising and the future. Literally everyone (I can list names here too). The thing is that many cowboys didn't get cars at first..

stale2002 7y ago

> without any demonstrable killer app It seems like crypto currencies have worked pretty well for sending censorship resistant transactions. This is demonstrated by, for whatever reason, cryptocurrency transactions have generally been censored much less often when compared to, say, bank or credit card transactions.