5 ms·

The government could just block this directly using their national firewall instead of having to get a company to do it, couldn’t they?

FooBarWidget 7y ago
Hong Kong does not have a firewall. It seems most people on HN think Hong Kong is governed like the rest of China, but it is not.
- votepaunchy 7y ago
  ... it is not yet [until 2047 at the latest].
- drusepth 7y ago
  (Please) correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that... what this whole protest is about? HK staying under independent rule instead of (forcefully) adopting Chinese rule?
  - whoevercares 7y ago
    The protest is directly triggered by the new law that will send murders to China but people fears that it’ll be abused to send anyone to China. They made a whole bunch of extra requirements which is probably against Beijing’s long term vision of HK. I respect their motivation but I wish they could do it more incrementally and with less disruption of normal people’s life(at this point the protesters are almost school students)
    - FooBarWidget 7y ago
      Parent is being downvoted because most people on HN cannot fanthom how anyone can genuinely and legitimately not take the extreme opinion of "everything China does is evil", but the parent's opinion is more representative of many Hong Kong people' actual opinions, than HNers think. That is: not saying China is evil, but also not denying that China is problematic, while focusing more on the practicality of the way the protesters do things. You don't have to believe my word for it. Go look up Hong Kong related questions on https://Quora.com https://Quora.com and read what Hong Kongers think. A whole new world will open for you. The answers posted there are too detailed and too well-argumented to be simply propaganda by paid Beijing workers. Propagandists are paid by comment, so they are incentivized to write many short comments instead of long and elaborate ones.
      - lallalalallls 7y ago
        > Propagandists are paid by comment I am curious. How do you know that?
      - darepublic 7y ago
        The quora answers I've seen regarding this were all poorly written, despite being lengthy screeds. This is an attempt at imitation: WHYYYYYYYY do the protesters think violence is the answer? Chinese government not perfect but you have to remember how things were like in the 1950s. Maybe young generation does not appreciate what they have? Maybe HK culture wants to be special and needs to learn that that they are not on a separate level from the rest of China? ^ if this is what you call 'fascinating' and 'a whole new world' opening perspective I would question whether you are not a propagandist yourself.
        whoevercares 7y ago
        You might be surprised what you wrote look perfect reasonable and make tons of sense to a great portion of native Chinese. Be aware that critical thinking and non-STEM lessons is quite lacking in China’s schools today. In fact what common Chinese will just see the chaos and they will just refuse to have any deeper conversation with you because disorder is just BAD, no argument. In addition, language barrier is also a thing + people in China aren’t that used to western style debate. Are they all defacto propagandist by your definition? I think it just need cultural influence and somehow raises awareness
  - UIZealot 7y ago
    China is not doing anything new to take away freedom in Hong Kong. To expand on whoevercares' comment, recently someone committed a crime in Taiwan and fled to Hong Kong. To close this loophole and prevent HK from becoming a safe haven for criminals, the Chief Executive of HK proposed a new law to facilitate extradition of these crime suspects from HK to various jurisdictions in the region, including Taiwan and mainland China. The proposed law even explicitly stated that it's not applicably to crimes political in nature. But some HK people were nevertheless concerned that it might be abused by China to target political dissidents taking refuge in HK. So they have taken to the streets to protest that law. As a result, the law was quickly suspended before it had a chance to pass, and a few weeks ago the HK Chief Executive officially announced the withdrawal of the law. However, despite the concession from the HK government, the protesters pressed on, demanding four more concessions from the government, chief among them universal suffrage, or the direct election of the HK Chief Executive, who up to this point have been nominated from a narrow pool of Beijing-approved candidates, then voted on by a committee. It's not entirely clear that China even had anything to do with the proposal of the law which started this ordeal. But the protesters have shrewdly painted a picture, to great effect, of big bad China stomping on the poor helpless people of HK. (EDIT: spelling, wording)
    - 20190820234322 7y ago
      Just a heads-up, this poster is almost certainly a Chinese shill. Just look at his comment history. Sadly, judging from dang's reply to one of his comments from 2 days ago, it looks like he's either been compromised or misinformed about the issue to an simply inexplicable extent. Maybe it's time for him to step down.
    - lazerpants 7y ago
      >or the direct election of the HK Chief Executive, who up to this point have been nominated from a narrow pool of Beijing-approved candidates This is only true since the handover from the UK in 1997.
      - UIZealot 7y ago
        That's true. Prior to the handover, the executive head of HK had been the governor, appointed by the British government.
  - FooBarWidget 7y ago
    That is indeed the interpretation propagated by the western media, and the one that the protesters present. But not all Hong Kongers believe that that is what the protests are truly about. Underneath, there are aspects related to economy, personal identity and historical context, which, combined, call into question whether the protests are truly good for Hong Kong. There is nothing more I can say here without getting downvoted. Most people here will not believe me. I advice you to read things for yourself and draw your own conclusions: go to https://quora.com https://quora.com and search for Hong Kong questions. Many Hong Kongers reply there, as well as other groups that are closer to HK such as Singaporeans and even mainland Chinese. Their view on things will fascinate you.
qtplatypus 7y ago
The great firewall isn't present in HK as part of the one country two systems.

FooBarWidget 7y ago

Hong Kong does not have a firewall. It seems most people on HN think Hong Kong is governed like the rest of China, but it is not.

votepaunchy 7y ago
... it is not yet [until 2047 at the latest].
drusepth 7y ago
(Please) correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that... what this whole protest is about? HK staying under independent rule instead of (forcefully) adopting Chinese rule?
- whoevercares 7y ago
  The protest is directly triggered by the new law that will send murders to China but people fears that it’ll be abused to send anyone to China. They made a whole bunch of extra requirements which is probably against Beijing’s long term vision of HK. I respect their motivation but I wish they could do it more incrementally and with less disruption of normal people’s life(at this point the protesters are almost school students)
  - FooBarWidget 7y ago
    Parent is being downvoted because most people on HN cannot fanthom how anyone can genuinely and legitimately not take the extreme opinion of "everything China does is evil", but the parent's opinion is more representative of many Hong Kong people' actual opinions, than HNers think. That is: not saying China is evil, but also not denying that China is problematic, while focusing more on the practicality of the way the protesters do things. You don't have to believe my word for it. Go look up Hong Kong related questions on https://Quora.com https://Quora.com and read what Hong Kongers think. A whole new world will open for you. The answers posted there are too detailed and too well-argumented to be simply propaganda by paid Beijing workers. Propagandists are paid by comment, so they are incentivized to write many short comments instead of long and elaborate ones.
    - lallalalallls 7y ago
      > Propagandists are paid by comment I am curious. How do you know that?
    - darepublic 7y ago
      The quora answers I've seen regarding this were all poorly written, despite being lengthy screeds. This is an attempt at imitation: WHYYYYYYYY do the protesters think violence is the answer? Chinese government not perfect but you have to remember how things were like in the 1950s. Maybe young generation does not appreciate what they have? Maybe HK culture wants to be special and needs to learn that that they are not on a separate level from the rest of China? ^ if this is what you call 'fascinating' and 'a whole new world' opening perspective I would question whether you are not a propagandist yourself.
      - whoevercares 7y ago
        You might be surprised what you wrote look perfect reasonable and make tons of sense to a great portion of native Chinese. Be aware that critical thinking and non-STEM lessons is quite lacking in China’s schools today. In fact what common Chinese will just see the chaos and they will just refuse to have any deeper conversation with you because disorder is just BAD, no argument. In addition, language barrier is also a thing + people in China aren’t that used to western style debate. Are they all defacto propagandist by your definition? I think it just need cultural influence and somehow raises awareness
- UIZealot 7y ago
  China is not doing anything new to take away freedom in Hong Kong. To expand on whoevercares' comment, recently someone committed a crime in Taiwan and fled to Hong Kong. To close this loophole and prevent HK from becoming a safe haven for criminals, the Chief Executive of HK proposed a new law to facilitate extradition of these crime suspects from HK to various jurisdictions in the region, including Taiwan and mainland China. The proposed law even explicitly stated that it's not applicably to crimes political in nature. But some HK people were nevertheless concerned that it might be abused by China to target political dissidents taking refuge in HK. So they have taken to the streets to protest that law. As a result, the law was quickly suspended before it had a chance to pass, and a few weeks ago the HK Chief Executive officially announced the withdrawal of the law. However, despite the concession from the HK government, the protesters pressed on, demanding four more concessions from the government, chief among them universal suffrage, or the direct election of the HK Chief Executive, who up to this point have been nominated from a narrow pool of Beijing-approved candidates, then voted on by a committee. It's not entirely clear that China even had anything to do with the proposal of the law which started this ordeal. But the protesters have shrewdly painted a picture, to great effect, of big bad China stomping on the poor helpless people of HK. (EDIT: spelling, wording)
  - 20190820234322 7y ago
    Just a heads-up, this poster is almost certainly a Chinese shill. Just look at his comment history. Sadly, judging from dang's reply to one of his comments from 2 days ago, it looks like he's either been compromised or misinformed about the issue to an simply inexplicable extent. Maybe it's time for him to step down.
  - lazerpants 7y ago
    >or the direct election of the HK Chief Executive, who up to this point have been nominated from a narrow pool of Beijing-approved candidates This is only true since the handover from the UK in 1997.
    - UIZealot 7y ago
      That's true. Prior to the handover, the executive head of HK had been the governor, appointed by the British government.
- FooBarWidget 7y ago
  That is indeed the interpretation propagated by the western media, and the one that the protesters present. But not all Hong Kongers believe that that is what the protests are truly about. Underneath, there are aspects related to economy, personal identity and historical context, which, combined, call into question whether the protests are truly good for Hong Kong. There is nothing more I can say here without getting downvoted. Most people here will not believe me. I advice you to read things for yourself and draw your own conclusions: go to https://quora.com https://quora.com and search for Hong Kong questions. Many Hong Kongers reply there, as well as other groups that are closer to HK such as Singaporeans and even mainland Chinese. Their view on things will fascinate you.

qtplatypus 7y ago

The great firewall isn't present in HK as part of the one country two systems.