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> Free speech is what is enshrined within the First Amendment. Again, the concept of free speech is older than America and more fundamental than the first amen

> Free speech is what is enshrined within the First Amendment. Again, the concept of free speech is older than America and more fundamental than the first amendment. What is legal is not the bar. I am not sure I can make it any more clear than that, and I am not sure why you are clinging to current legal definitions when the point I am making is about doing better than the status quo. > Democrats are centrist/center-right by world standards. Certainly by European and Canadian standards anyways -- the bulk of the world's other democracies. As for your claim that Democrats are center-right by "world standards". The world's largest Democracy is India and Democrats would absolutely not be center-right there. Nor in most of Europe. You are likely taking a thin slice of select European countries like Sweden - who themselves are confused at the claims made by the American left about Swedish politics - and casting that as the barometer for what is left, center, or right. Pick whatever semantic label you feel comfortable with. I am talking about the Progressive Left, which is described here as "Progressive Activists": https://hiddentribes.us/profiles https://hiddentribes.us/profiles

arcticbull 7y ago
> Again, the concept of free speech is older than America and more fundamental than the first amendment. What is legal is not the bar. I am not sure I can make it any more clear than that, and I am not sure why you are clinging to current legal definitions when the point I am making is about doing better than the status quo. Your rights end where mine begin, is the case I'm making. By forcing me to offer you a platform you're violating my rights to free speech. A right to speak must also follow a right not to speak in the way freedom of religion must also necessarily involve a freedom from religion. You can't make me, a private entity, tell your story in your words. I certainly don't expect Breitbart to publish my feelings on how America doesn't have a "left" using my words. Should I be able to force you to publish my essay on your blog? I can't actually think of a time when "free speech" as you describe it ever existed. There's never been a country where media was required by law to publish whatever was given them. Certainly not in feudal days, not in the industrial revolution, and not today.
- dependenttypes 7y ago
  Just wondering, what do you think about a company refusing to serve a gay person? Would they have the freedom of association? Even if you say that they should be free to not serve said person, this still does not make it ethical - just like if you start calling homosexuals slurs out of nowhere, just because you are free to do it, it does not mean that you won't be an asshole.

arcticbull 7y ago

> Again, the concept of free speech is older than America and more fundamental than the first amendment. What is legal is not the bar. I am not sure I can make it any more clear than that, and I am not sure why you are clinging to current legal definitions when the point I am making is about doing better than the status quo. Your rights end where mine begin, is the case I'm making. By forcing me to offer you a platform you're violating my rights to free speech. A right to speak must also follow a right not to speak in the way freedom of religion must also necessarily involve a freedom from religion. You can't make me, a private entity, tell your story in your words. I certainly don't expect Breitbart to publish my feelings on how America doesn't have a "left" using my words. Should I be able to force you to publish my essay on your blog? I can't actually think of a time when "free speech" as you describe it ever existed. There's never been a country where media was required by law to publish whatever was given them. Certainly not in feudal days, not in the industrial revolution, and not today.

dependenttypes 7y ago
Just wondering, what do you think about a company refusing to serve a gay person? Would they have the freedom of association? Even if you say that they should be free to not serve said person, this still does not make it ethical - just like if you start calling homosexuals slurs out of nowhere, just because you are free to do it, it does not mean that you won't be an asshole.