6 ms·

Really hard to believe that Apple is the "privacy oriented company we can trust", that the company constantly touts in their advertising as a reason to buy thei

Really hard to believe that Apple is the "privacy oriented company we can trust", that the company constantly touts in their advertising as a reason to buy their products mind you, when at the same time, you have news like this constantly coming out. If you really wanted me to believe that you were serious about this Apple, you would do what Google has done and completely remove yourself from China until issues of blatant censorship and oppression like these improve. Of course, this will never happen, because too much money comes from the revenue stream that Chinese citizens represent.

reaperducer 7y ago
I'm not sure about "constantly." The last big disappointment I can remember was the China/iCloud thing. The problem is that Tim Cook is a bean counter, not a technologist. He talks a good game in scripted keynotes, but he's really in it for the money, like most other CEOs. That said, Apple is the least of all available evils. When something better comes along, I'll leave. If that thing already exists, please let me know so I can begin the process.
- monksy 7y ago
  > The problem is that Tim Cook is a bean counter, not a technologist. He talks a good game in scripted keynotes, but he's really in it for the money, like most other CEOs. When has the Apple CEO not done that? Apple is the king of marketing spin.
  - millstone 7y ago
    Accessibility comes to mind. Apple's investment in accessibility cannot be explained through bean counting.
    - rndgermandude 7y ago
      Can't it?[1] 3.2 million people visually impaired in 2015, 8.2 with vision problems, in the US alone, trend hard upwards. [1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/visual-impairment-blindness-cases-us-expected-double-2050 https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/visual-impairm...
      - CJefferson 7y ago
        I don't like Apple much but their accessibility is outstanding, putting windows, android and desktop Linux to shame.
        rndgermandude 7y ago
        I am not saying they aren't doing a great job in that area, just that that great job is not necessarily motivated entirely by altruism ;)
        CJefferson 7y ago
        Good point, I may have read too much into your message.
        widowlark 7y ago
        I disagree. With a family member living with ALS, we had to wean them off of Apple products so that we could switch to a supported eye-tracking platform on windows. Apple had no os-level support for this and windows does.
        oaisdf234 7y ago
        Would this have helped? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqoXFCCTfm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqoXFCCTfm4
        widowlark 7y ago
        Unfortunately, no - My family member has lost the ability to speak as this is one of the progressions of ALS - there comes a point where you have to use specialized input equipment, all of which work with USB and none of which work with iOS or MacOS
        CJefferson 7y ago
        Interesting, I'll admit I know nothing about eye tracking, I'm more familiar with blind accessibility, zooming, that kind of thing. I'll keep this in mind in future.
- lawrenceyan 7y ago
  Big isn't enough to emphasize it. There's a consistency to Apple's actions, and it shows them to be fundamentally hypocritical.
- SXX 7y ago
  > That said, Apple is the least of all available evils. When something better comes along, I'll leave. If that thing already exists, please let me know so I can begin the process. This is chicken and egg problem. Companies that develop privacy-oriented devices have to sell very experimental devices for premium price because they neither have production batches large enough to bring price down nor they have enough money to invest into UX. So they can never appeal to mass market. There is already a company selling desktop hardware that is closest to being backdoor-free [1], there is a phone with isolated baseband [2] and even some experiments with ARM-based laptops [3]. And actually many more examples can be found around internet, but they not going to magically release Apple-grade product. [1] Talos: https://raptorcs.com/ https://raptorcs.com/ [2] Librem 5: https://news.ycombinator.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/ [3] Pine64: https://pine64.org/ https://pine64.org/
  - meruru 7y ago
    Don't forget https://lineageos.org https://lineageos.org
  - GenericsMotors 7y ago
    Thanks for sharing this!
  - justinclift 7y ago
    https://Puri.sm https://Puri.sm seems relevant as well.
    - SXX 7y ago
      Thank you. I think it's obvious second list should've been it, but I was half sleeping so...
- icelancer 7y ago
  >> That said, Apple is the least of all available evils. When something better comes along, I'll leave. If that thing already exists, please let me know so I can begin the process. What do you mean by "better?" More privacy-oriented? You cannot sideload applications and you don't control the iPhone in the least.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Better, meaning not beholden to China.
- garmaine 7y ago
  > That said, Apple is the least of all available evils. When something better comes along, I'll leave. If that thing already exists, please let me know so I can begin the process. https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
- BryantD 7y ago
  Yeah -- I think Tim Cook has better instincts than most but that doesn't mean I expect him to always do the right thing.
jklm 7y ago
Google operates in China: https://careers.google.com/locations/shanghai/ https://careers.google.com/locations/shanghai/
- lawrenceyan 7y ago
  Google isn't available in China. If you attempt to go to the Chinese .cn domain site, it redirects you to the .hk one instead. The decision to leave mainland China occurred in 2010 after Google announced that, in response to a Chinese-originated hacking attack on them and other US tech companies, they were no longer willing to censor searches in China and would pull out of the country completely if necessary. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China
  - jklm 7y ago
    Yes, this is pretty well known. What's not well known is that Google still operates in China and makes billions [0] off advertising there. So Google has hardly 'pulled out of China' despite not running a search engine. At this point, they wouldn't succeed even if they tried - so it's more an excuse than anything else that they don't _want_ to operate Google the search engine there. [0] https://www.theinformation.com/articles/googles-ad-sales-from-china-are-booming https://www.theinformation.com/articles/googles-ad-sales-fro...
    - lawrenceyan 7y ago
      I can't tell if you're trying to purposefully obfuscate / be antagonistic right now, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. The Information article you cite, explicitly says itself that this increased revenue comes from "a wave of Chinese tech companies buying ads outside China to promote products like the TikTok video app and the Alipay mobile wallet". Are you trying to imply that the actions of any Chinese company should be assumed to be an extension of the central government's? I mean, I suppose you could argue that. But otherwise, all this represents is a company with an international presence buying ads to advertise their product/service.
justapassenger 7y ago
Apple will fight for the user. In USA, where not only it doesn't really cost them much, but gets them huge PR boost and makes more money. It's harder to have principles when it could cost you a lot of money, like in China. I use iPhone, but never for a second believed in Apple PR BS how they're better than other companies. Never believe salesman who works on a commission.
- tkubacki 7y ago
  Apple is fighting only for the one thing - the money. If that means they need to sacrifice some people (especially outside US) - they will do it.
  - jdnenej 7y ago
    "Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make"
  - superkuh 7y ago
    Specifically, Apple only fights for user security because since 2013 or so they've had a giant pile of liquid money and have been determined to get into the banking, payments, and rent seeking business. To make their phones useful payment terminals they have to be relatively secure. It's not about the user. It's about seeking rent from the user.
- kelnos 7y ago
  Apple will don't for the user when it's good for their bottom line. When doing so can hurt them, as in defying the wishes of an authoritarian government that just so happens to run the country where the bulk of their manufacturing happens, they aren't quite so altruistic anymore. Which I don't really have a problem with, except that they market themselves as doing everything for the user, and have cultivated a cult-like image supporting that.

reaperducer 7y ago

I'm not sure about "constantly." The last big disappointment I can remember was the China/iCloud thing. The problem is that Tim Cook is a bean counter, not a technologist. He talks a good game in scripted keynotes, but he's really in it for the money, like most other CEOs. That said, Apple is the least of all available evils. When something better comes along, I'll leave. If that thing already exists, please let me know so I can begin the process.

monksy 7y ago
> The problem is that Tim Cook is a bean counter, not a technologist. He talks a good game in scripted keynotes, but he's really in it for the money, like most other CEOs. When has the Apple CEO not done that? Apple is the king of marketing spin.
- millstone 7y ago
  Accessibility comes to mind. Apple's investment in accessibility cannot be explained through bean counting.
  - rndgermandude 7y ago
    Can't it?[1] 3.2 million people visually impaired in 2015, 8.2 with vision problems, in the US alone, trend hard upwards. [1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/visual-impairment-blindness-cases-us-expected-double-2050 https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/visual-impairm...
    - CJefferson 7y ago
      I don't like Apple much but their accessibility is outstanding, putting windows, android and desktop Linux to shame.
      - rndgermandude 7y ago
        I am not saying they aren't doing a great job in that area, just that that great job is not necessarily motivated entirely by altruism ;)
        CJefferson 7y ago
        Good point, I may have read too much into your message.
      - widowlark 7y ago
        I disagree. With a family member living with ALS, we had to wean them off of Apple products so that we could switch to a supported eye-tracking platform on windows. Apple had no os-level support for this and windows does.
        oaisdf234 7y ago
        Would this have helped? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqoXFCCTfm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqoXFCCTfm4
        widowlark 7y ago
        Unfortunately, no - My family member has lost the ability to speak as this is one of the progressions of ALS - there comes a point where you have to use specialized input equipment, all of which work with USB and none of which work with iOS or MacOS
        CJefferson 7y ago
        Interesting, I'll admit I know nothing about eye tracking, I'm more familiar with blind accessibility, zooming, that kind of thing. I'll keep this in mind in future.
lawrenceyan 7y ago
Big isn't enough to emphasize it. There's a consistency to Apple's actions, and it shows them to be fundamentally hypocritical.
SXX 7y ago
> That said, Apple is the least of all available evils. When something better comes along, I'll leave. If that thing already exists, please let me know so I can begin the process. This is chicken and egg problem. Companies that develop privacy-oriented devices have to sell very experimental devices for premium price because they neither have production batches large enough to bring price down nor they have enough money to invest into UX. So they can never appeal to mass market. There is already a company selling desktop hardware that is closest to being backdoor-free [1], there is a phone with isolated baseband [2] and even some experiments with ARM-based laptops [3]. And actually many more examples can be found around internet, but they not going to magically release Apple-grade product. [1] Talos: https://raptorcs.com/ https://raptorcs.com/ [2] Librem 5: https://news.ycombinator.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/ [3] Pine64: https://pine64.org/ https://pine64.org/
- meruru 7y ago
  Don't forget https://lineageos.org https://lineageos.org
- GenericsMotors 7y ago
  Thanks for sharing this!
- justinclift 7y ago
  https://Puri.sm https://Puri.sm seems relevant as well.
  - SXX 7y ago
    Thank you. I think it's obvious second list should've been it, but I was half sleeping so...
icelancer 7y ago
>> That said, Apple is the least of all available evils. When something better comes along, I'll leave. If that thing already exists, please let me know so I can begin the process. What do you mean by "better?" More privacy-oriented? You cannot sideload applications and you don't control the iPhone in the least.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Better, meaning not beholden to China.
garmaine 7y ago
> That said, Apple is the least of all available evils. When something better comes along, I'll leave. If that thing already exists, please let me know so I can begin the process. https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
BryantD 7y ago
Yeah -- I think Tim Cook has better instincts than most but that doesn't mean I expect him to always do the right thing.

jklm 7y ago

Google operates in China: https://careers.google.com/locations/shanghai/ https://careers.google.com/locations/shanghai/

lawrenceyan 7y ago
Google isn't available in China. If you attempt to go to the Chinese .cn domain site, it redirects you to the .hk one instead. The decision to leave mainland China occurred in 2010 after Google announced that, in response to a Chinese-originated hacking attack on them and other US tech companies, they were no longer willing to censor searches in China and would pull out of the country completely if necessary. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China
- jklm 7y ago
  Yes, this is pretty well known. What's not well known is that Google still operates in China and makes billions [0] off advertising there. So Google has hardly 'pulled out of China' despite not running a search engine. At this point, they wouldn't succeed even if they tried - so it's more an excuse than anything else that they don't _want_ to operate Google the search engine there. [0] https://www.theinformation.com/articles/googles-ad-sales-from-china-are-booming https://www.theinformation.com/articles/googles-ad-sales-fro...
  - lawrenceyan 7y ago
    I can't tell if you're trying to purposefully obfuscate / be antagonistic right now, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. The Information article you cite, explicitly says itself that this increased revenue comes from "a wave of Chinese tech companies buying ads outside China to promote products like the TikTok video app and the Alipay mobile wallet". Are you trying to imply that the actions of any Chinese company should be assumed to be an extension of the central government's? I mean, I suppose you could argue that. But otherwise, all this represents is a company with an international presence buying ads to advertise their product/service.

justapassenger 7y ago

Apple will fight for the user. In USA, where not only it doesn't really cost them much, but gets them huge PR boost and makes more money. It's harder to have principles when it could cost you a lot of money, like in China. I use iPhone, but never for a second believed in Apple PR BS how they're better than other companies. Never believe salesman who works on a commission.

tkubacki 7y ago
Apple is fighting only for the one thing - the money. If that means they need to sacrifice some people (especially outside US) - they will do it.
- jdnenej 7y ago
  "Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make"
- superkuh 7y ago
  Specifically, Apple only fights for user security because since 2013 or so they've had a giant pile of liquid money and have been determined to get into the banking, payments, and rent seeking business. To make their phones useful payment terminals they have to be relatively secure. It's not about the user. It's about seeking rent from the user.
kelnos 7y ago
Apple will don't for the user when it's good for their bottom line. When doing so can hurt them, as in defying the wishes of an authoritarian government that just so happens to run the country where the bulk of their manufacturing happens, they aren't quite so altruistic anymore. Which I don't really have a problem with, except that they market themselves as doing everything for the user, and have cultivated a cult-like image supporting that.