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100% freedom, all the time "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin

100% freedom, all the time "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin I'm not sure about iOS, but Android still allows installing unsigned APKs (F-Droid and similar platforms work because of this), and what has already been installed stays on the phone until the user removes it.

Shank 7y ago
You kind of can compile and run anything you want, but by default free developer accounts can only run 3 apps for 7 days until they expire. Tools like Cydia Impactor exist for this purpose.
bilbo0s 7y ago
"I'm not sure about iOS, but Android still allows installing [unsigned APKs likely hacked with spyware integrated courtesy of the Chinese government]" The kind of "freedom" you're talking about generally has a high cost. At times, that cost is, well, "freedom". Frustrating actually. There is no platform out there that delivers on the promise of getting you security and freedom. Certainly none that get you privacy. Right now it's all marketing and fanboys, but where the rubber meets the road, there's just no grip.
- derrick_jensen 7y ago
  An untrusted APK is just an APK that isn't signed by Google. They can still be signed by third parties and verified to be correct. It's a shame that more open source platforms haven't taken off, but I'm not too surprised. I don't understand what you mean by the first sentence. Can you be more specific when you say freedom?
Craighead 7y ago
Everytime this quote gets brought up Benny rolls in his grave. The rights are self evident that we make laws that govern ourselves. Get over yourself.
- dang 7y ago
  Personal attacks will get you banned here, and you've unfortunately done this before as well (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21034818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21034818). Please edit such swipes out of the comments you post to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
cortesoft 7y ago
100% freedom is an absolutely banal phrase. What does it even mean? I am pretty sure that you don't mean someone is 100% free to murder someone else. So you clearly believe in some restrictions. I can already imagine the counter argument: "Well, 100% freedom unless your freedom infringes on someone else's freedom!" Ok, but what does it mean to infringe on someone else's freedom? Murder is the easy case; what about polluting a river? I think we would all agree dumping enough chemicals to kill all life in a river would be infringing on other's freedoms, so lets prevent that... but where do you draw the line? It will take judgement, consensus, and compromise to find out where that line is. So suddenly we are back to needing rules around curtailing freedoms that some people aren't going to like.
- derrick_jensen 7y ago
  I agree that 100% freedom was pretty hyperbole. AnCap + the NAP is probably a better comparison (but still lacks some nuance). In the case of user privacy, I'm against any backdoors or outlawing of encryption (pretty much any government intervention in the messaging space)
dotancohen 7y ago
The corollary to this quote is that there are people who do not deserve Liberty. Or Safety.
song 7y ago
See, that's a dilemma I grappling with right now. I am trying to decide between an iphone and an android phone. And while android does allow me to install any APKs I want which is great. It also seems to be supremely difficult not to share all of my contacts with google, not to share more information than I want with them and to not have my privacy completely invaded. So, on one hand, android gives me freedom to install any app I want and to install a firewall like netguard, on the other hand, it destroys my privacy. I'm really looking for a guide about how to properly secure and prevent data leaking an android phone beyond the basics that I've seen online but without that I'm leaning toward Apple despite finding it abhorrent that I cannot install what I want on my own device (I can obviously side load by using my dev certificate but that's still not something I'm happy with)
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  > not to share all of my contacts with google You can do this even using the Google Contacts app. Just go into the account settings and turn off contacts sync. To be extra sure, just use a different contacts app. > not have my privacy completely invaded. Android has strictly less privacy invasion than iOS, even on Google phones. You can set an offline maps app to be your default. Getting your GPS location doesn't have to send it to Google, while doing the same thing on iOS always sends it to Apple, no matter which app asked. You can install your own apps usably without telling Google who you are.
- xurias 7y ago
  The only feasible way to avoid sharing data with Google is using a custom ROM like LineageOS, a Google framework replacement like microG, and XPrivacyLua (module for XPosed). Ideally you'd avoid using any Google services at all, but at least these steps largely prevent Google from freely taking whatever data they want if you do use the Play Store or whatever.
  - song 7y ago
    Problem with that is that unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty where I live... I think I'll still try to go down that road if I can't find any other solution...

Shank 7y ago

You kind of can compile and run anything you want, but by default free developer accounts can only run 3 apps for 7 days until they expire. Tools like Cydia Impactor exist for this purpose.

bilbo0s 7y ago

"I'm not sure about iOS, but Android still allows installing [unsigned APKs likely hacked with spyware integrated courtesy of the Chinese government]" The kind of "freedom" you're talking about generally has a high cost. At times, that cost is, well, "freedom". Frustrating actually. There is no platform out there that delivers on the promise of getting you security and freedom. Certainly none that get you privacy. Right now it's all marketing and fanboys, but where the rubber meets the road, there's just no grip.

derrick_jensen 7y ago
An untrusted APK is just an APK that isn't signed by Google. They can still be signed by third parties and verified to be correct. It's a shame that more open source platforms haven't taken off, but I'm not too surprised. I don't understand what you mean by the first sentence. Can you be more specific when you say freedom?

Craighead 7y ago

Everytime this quote gets brought up Benny rolls in his grave. The rights are self evident that we make laws that govern ourselves. Get over yourself.

dang 7y ago
Personal attacks will get you banned here, and you've unfortunately done this before as well (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21034818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21034818). Please edit such swipes out of the comments you post to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

cortesoft 7y ago

100% freedom is an absolutely banal phrase. What does it even mean? I am pretty sure that you don't mean someone is 100% free to murder someone else. So you clearly believe in some restrictions. I can already imagine the counter argument: "Well, 100% freedom unless your freedom infringes on someone else's freedom!" Ok, but what does it mean to infringe on someone else's freedom? Murder is the easy case; what about polluting a river? I think we would all agree dumping enough chemicals to kill all life in a river would be infringing on other's freedoms, so lets prevent that... but where do you draw the line? It will take judgement, consensus, and compromise to find out where that line is. So suddenly we are back to needing rules around curtailing freedoms that some people aren't going to like.

derrick_jensen 7y ago
I agree that 100% freedom was pretty hyperbole. AnCap + the NAP is probably a better comparison (but still lacks some nuance). In the case of user privacy, I'm against any backdoors or outlawing of encryption (pretty much any government intervention in the messaging space)

dotancohen 7y ago

The corollary to this quote is that there are people who do not deserve Liberty. Or Safety.

song 7y ago

See, that's a dilemma I grappling with right now. I am trying to decide between an iphone and an android phone. And while android does allow me to install any APKs I want which is great. It also seems to be supremely difficult not to share all of my contacts with google, not to share more information than I want with them and to not have my privacy completely invaded. So, on one hand, android gives me freedom to install any app I want and to install a firewall like netguard, on the other hand, it destroys my privacy. I'm really looking for a guide about how to properly secure and prevent data leaking an android phone beyond the basics that I've seen online but without that I'm leaning toward Apple despite finding it abhorrent that I cannot install what I want on my own device (I can obviously side load by using my dev certificate but that's still not something I'm happy with)

lern_too_spel 7y ago
> not to share all of my contacts with google You can do this even using the Google Contacts app. Just go into the account settings and turn off contacts sync. To be extra sure, just use a different contacts app. > not have my privacy completely invaded. Android has strictly less privacy invasion than iOS, even on Google phones. You can set an offline maps app to be your default. Getting your GPS location doesn't have to send it to Google, while doing the same thing on iOS always sends it to Apple, no matter which app asked. You can install your own apps usably without telling Google who you are.
xurias 7y ago
The only feasible way to avoid sharing data with Google is using a custom ROM like LineageOS, a Google framework replacement like microG, and XPrivacyLua (module for XPosed). Ideally you'd avoid using any Google services at all, but at least these steps largely prevent Google from freely taking whatever data they want if you do use the Play Store or whatever.
- song 7y ago
  Problem with that is that unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty where I live... I think I'll still try to go down that road if I can't find any other solution...