4 ms·

This type of stuff is why Warren wants to break up tech. It should NOT be up to apple to decide stuff like this.

by aaomidi 7y ago

faster 7y ago
Who should decide?
- protomyth 7y ago
  The owner of the phone. Lack of side loading is the problem.
  - on_and_off 7y ago
    this. side-loading ... the term itself is ridiculous. You cannot just load an app on your phone unless Apple approves it.
    - brian-armstrong 7y ago
      It's actually a historical term - it came about from loading apps on the Nokia Ngage ("side-talking")
      - hug 7y ago
        It sure didn't. Sideloading came about as content was generally downloaded elsewhere and then pushed onto a device over a local connection -- i.e. sideways. It's a lot older than the N-Gage.
- antoinevg 7y ago
  No one should get to decide is the point. You may be a bit young to remember this but it was once possible to install any software on hardware you owned without permission from the manufacturer.
  - stanmancan 7y ago
    And that’s how the common person ends up with devices riddled with viruses, malware, and spyware. I don’t disagree with you, but the walled garden approach is certainly a safer option for the vast majority of end users.
    - qlk1123 7y ago
      No. Linux Desktop suffer much fewer virus attacks and they are certainly NOT walled garden.
      - Ygg2 7y ago
        That's function of its obscurity, not its design.
        jethro_tell 7y ago
        not entirely, more a function of it's multi user mode as default and repos. Those two things would have gone a long ways for early windows as well. It's also worth noting that there are a lot of linux servers in the wild that are hacked serving shitty wordpress malware and spam email servers. Sure the desktop is fine, it's a very small piece of the pie, but the overall linux install ends up running bad software and poor configurations just like any OS.
      - npo9 7y ago
        If Linux Desktop is a safer environment it has just as much to do with its obscurity as it does with it’s improved security mode. Add a few hundred million gullible users and you’ll see more malware in Linux Desktop.
      - jethro_tell 7y ago
        So first, having a multi user system was a good idea, running as a non privileged user is a good idea, and installing software through repos is a good idea. Linux isn't immune, it's just attacked differently and doesn't have the kind of surface area that would make attacks worth the effort. (not that there aren't thousands of linux boxes out there that are borked, they just aren't making the browser slow so people don't complain about it in the same way. What would work really nicely here, is if apple had the app store as well as repo packages. So installing fdroid-for-iPhone from the play store shows all fdroid apps next time I look for apps. like adding a ppr to a deb box. I don't know if they could still get leaned on to remove the access to that in the same way, but I would venture to guess that a secondary market for repos could be built in a way that is mildly vetted and also not tied to shareholder interests.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- michaelbrave 7y ago
  let people install software on a phone like we do on a computer maybe, you know, app store optional.
lxmorj 7y ago
How exactly would a smaller company stop China from forcing them to remove content easier than Apple?
- ip26 7y ago
  A smaller company would have less to lose when China threatens to block access to their market.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Or more, depending on what fraction of their production or revenue it made up?
  - drusepth 7y ago
    A smaller company would have fewer resources to fight the decision and/or get fined/sued into bankruptcy unless they just completely left Chinese markets.
    - ip26 7y ago
      Notice countless small US companies do precisely that- they simply don't operate in China.
- aaomidi 7y ago
  Elizabeth's plan isn't to make smaller companies. It's to make public markets. https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/break-up-big-tech https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/break-up-big-tech
  - summerlight 7y ago
    And apparently she is not very interested in Apple according to the link as I cannot find a single instance of "Apple" in the plan. Not sure if Warren's plan will help this case.
- heavyset_go 7y ago
duxup 7y ago
I'm not convinced smaller companies would make different decisions.
- aaomidi 7y ago
  Her plan isnt to make smaller companies... https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/break-up-big-tech https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/break-up-big-tech
  - npo9 7y ago
    Warren has no authority to affect how computers operate outside of the US. The non-us market is large enough that controlled marketplaces would exist if they couldn’t exist in the US.
    - aaomidi 7y ago
      If the company is US based, the US government has full authority to demand how they behave elsewhere.
      - fennecfoxen 7y ago
        Oh excellent, more reasons for offshoring.
  - duxup 7y ago
    Reading that I'm not sure how that solves the issue mentioned.
summerlight 7y ago
Breaking Apple up into service, app store and hardware might be a (coincidentally) working solution as it will allow third party app store without a censorship but I guess you didn't mean exactly this.
nichos 7y ago
You have a choice, you can buy an Android phone, use fdroid, etc. Let's not get the government involved, it never really works out well.
- rndgermandude 7y ago
  >Let's not get the government involved, it never really works out well. I for one like my fire department and police. Sure, the government fucks up a lot of times, but at least in a democratic society I get to vote while in a "small government" society the power which would be wielded by government (and thus by the people, at least in theory) will be wielded completely by unelected powerful entities not accountable to the people, aka corporations and a few of the rich.
  - fennecfoxen 7y ago
    Hello. I have downvoted your post as your position on fire departments is poorly related to GP's concerns about government involvement in the context of app censorship.
    - rndgermandude 7y ago
      Except that's not what the OP said. It was "government sucks, it would suck here too". So thanks for your explanation on why you deny me useless internet points.
  - whenchamenia 7y ago
    I like roads, but not ones with roadblocks every mile. Lets be sensible.
  - mr_toad 7y ago
    > I for one like my fire department and police. Well, we do have government mandated standards for emergency numbers, and emergency alerts. I’m not sure we want more government involvement than that.

This type of stuff is why Warren wants to break up tech. It should NOT be up to apple to decide stuff like this.

faster 7y ago

Who should decide?

protomyth 7y ago
The owner of the phone. Lack of side loading is the problem.
- on_and_off 7y ago
  this. side-loading ... the term itself is ridiculous. You cannot just load an app on your phone unless Apple approves it.
  - brian-armstrong 7y ago
    It's actually a historical term - it came about from loading apps on the Nokia Ngage ("side-talking")
    - hug 7y ago
      It sure didn't. Sideloading came about as content was generally downloaded elsewhere and then pushed onto a device over a local connection -- i.e. sideways. It's a lot older than the N-Gage.
antoinevg 7y ago
No one should get to decide is the point. You may be a bit young to remember this but it was once possible to install any software on hardware you owned without permission from the manufacturer.
- stanmancan 7y ago
  And that’s how the common person ends up with devices riddled with viruses, malware, and spyware. I don’t disagree with you, but the walled garden approach is certainly a safer option for the vast majority of end users.
  - qlk1123 7y ago
    No. Linux Desktop suffer much fewer virus attacks and they are certainly NOT walled garden.
    - Ygg2 7y ago
      That's function of its obscurity, not its design.
      - jethro_tell 7y ago
        not entirely, more a function of it's multi user mode as default and repos. Those two things would have gone a long ways for early windows as well. It's also worth noting that there are a lot of linux servers in the wild that are hacked serving shitty wordpress malware and spam email servers. Sure the desktop is fine, it's a very small piece of the pie, but the overall linux install ends up running bad software and poor configurations just like any OS.
    - npo9 7y ago
      If Linux Desktop is a safer environment it has just as much to do with its obscurity as it does with it’s improved security mode. Add a few hundred million gullible users and you’ll see more malware in Linux Desktop.
    - jethro_tell 7y ago
      So first, having a multi user system was a good idea, running as a non privileged user is a good idea, and installing software through repos is a good idea. Linux isn't immune, it's just attacked differently and doesn't have the kind of surface area that would make attacks worth the effort. (not that there aren't thousands of linux boxes out there that are borked, they just aren't making the browser slow so people don't complain about it in the same way. What would work really nicely here, is if apple had the app store as well as repo packages. So installing fdroid-for-iPhone from the play store shows all fdroid apps next time I look for apps. like adding a ppr to a deb box. I don't know if they could still get leaned on to remove the access to that in the same way, but I would venture to guess that a secondary market for repos could be built in a way that is mildly vetted and also not tied to shareholder interests.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
michaelbrave 7y ago
let people install software on a phone like we do on a computer maybe, you know, app store optional.

lxmorj 7y ago

How exactly would a smaller company stop China from forcing them to remove content easier than Apple?

ip26 7y ago
A smaller company would have less to lose when China threatens to block access to their market.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Or more, depending on what fraction of their production or revenue it made up?
- drusepth 7y ago
  A smaller company would have fewer resources to fight the decision and/or get fined/sued into bankruptcy unless they just completely left Chinese markets.
  - ip26 7y ago
    Notice countless small US companies do precisely that- they simply don't operate in China.
aaomidi 7y ago
Elizabeth's plan isn't to make smaller companies. It's to make public markets. https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/break-up-big-tech https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/break-up-big-tech
- summerlight 7y ago
  And apparently she is not very interested in Apple according to the link as I cannot find a single instance of "Apple" in the plan. Not sure if Warren's plan will help this case.
heavyset_go 7y ago

duxup 7y ago

I'm not convinced smaller companies would make different decisions.

aaomidi 7y ago
Her plan isnt to make smaller companies... https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/break-up-big-tech https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/break-up-big-tech
- npo9 7y ago
  Warren has no authority to affect how computers operate outside of the US. The non-us market is large enough that controlled marketplaces would exist if they couldn’t exist in the US.
  - aaomidi 7y ago
    If the company is US based, the US government has full authority to demand how they behave elsewhere.
    - fennecfoxen 7y ago
      Oh excellent, more reasons for offshoring.
- duxup 7y ago
  Reading that I'm not sure how that solves the issue mentioned.

summerlight 7y ago

Breaking Apple up into service, app store and hardware might be a (coincidentally) working solution as it will allow third party app store without a censorship but I guess you didn't mean exactly this.

nichos 7y ago

You have a choice, you can buy an Android phone, use fdroid, etc. Let's not get the government involved, it never really works out well.

rndgermandude 7y ago
>Let's not get the government involved, it never really works out well. I for one like my fire department and police. Sure, the government fucks up a lot of times, but at least in a democratic society I get to vote while in a "small government" society the power which would be wielded by government (and thus by the people, at least in theory) will be wielded completely by unelected powerful entities not accountable to the people, aka corporations and a few of the rich.
- fennecfoxen 7y ago
  Hello. I have downvoted your post as your position on fire departments is poorly related to GP's concerns about government involvement in the context of app censorship.
  - rndgermandude 7y ago
    Except that's not what the OP said. It was "government sucks, it would suck here too". So thanks for your explanation on why you deny me useless internet points.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  I like roads, but not ones with roadblocks every mile. Lets be sensible.
- mr_toad 7y ago
  > I for one like my fire department and police. Well, we do have government mandated standards for emergency numbers, and emergency alerts. I’m not sure we want more government involvement than that.