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Iraq is a basket case country whose government is hanging on by a thread. China is a superpower with clear aspirations to unipolar hegemony. They are not compar

Iraq is a basket case country whose government is hanging on by a thread. China is a superpower with clear aspirations to unipolar hegemony. They are not comparable and cannot be held to the same standard.

Synaesthesia 7y ago
Iraq used to not be a basket case country until it was invaded by the unipolar hegemony.
- nickik 7y ago
  What nonsense. Iraq has been a shitshow for a very, very long time. And I'm not endorsing the war in any way.
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    The relevant question for the people living there is allways: but is it better tody? And it seems, no.
    - lostmsu 7y ago
      You never know who gets the power after a tyranny is removed. However, if you want tyranny to go, you have to gamble.
      - hutzlibu 7y ago
        But the chances of a smooth transition are higher if the people of the country mange that by themself, instead of foreign forced change, where many suspect the motives are different.
        nickik 7y ago
        You are ignoring that the US is not the only forign power. In a time of state collapse, other state will always have the upper hand. Even if the US had not tried to create their kind of government, Iran sure as shit was trying to get their guys in. So for the US its not about a question about US control, Iraqi control. Its a question of US control or Iranian control. In this case they supported mostly the same groups, ironically. Iran did en up with the upper hand by far in Iraq, meaning the US achived LITERALLY the opposite of what they wanted to achive.
    - nickik 7y ago
      But you didn't ask the relevant question. You made a statment that was wrong and I said so. Maybe next time you can just state the correct thing or ask the relevant question. If you had, I would have agree with you.
- Grue3 7y ago
  Imagine arguing Saddam's Iraq wasn't a basket case country. Iraqi celebrated when he was gone for a reason.
  - Synaesthesia 7y ago
    It had advanced education, universities which sent scientists to participate in conferences. Of course Saddam was a tyrant but at least the country functioned.
    - selimthegrim 7y ago
      I saw scientists from Baghdad University at a conference in Germany a month ago. It didn’t disappear into a black hole.
    - dangerbird2 7y ago
      except for Kurdistan, which faced decades of repression, followed by civil war and blockade by the Federal government after Desert Storm. It's telling that the region most consistently abused by the Baathists ended up being the only relatively stable region in Iraq after Saddam fell
- sgift 7y ago
  If you were not part of the governing minority you got brutally suppressed. If you dared to voice a different opinion you got send into prison for a nice round of torture. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The invasion of Iraq was a shit show, but let's not get into history rewriting here: Living in Iraq before the invasion was not some kind of utopia. He was a brutal dictator. And people suffered for it.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    And after the invasion millions more suffered for it even more. Including those suffering under Saddam. Who do you think are targeted mostly by IS? The formerly oppressed majority. The invasion made everything worse for everyone. No, you are not officially repressed by the state anymore. Instead you are oppressed by your local friendly militia. As long as we are clear on that, yes, Iraq under Saddam was shit. That's no excuse to make it worse.
  - smileypete 7y ago
    >If you were not part of the governing minority you got brutally suppressed. If you dared to voice a different opinion you got send into prison for a nice round of torture. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Maybe, but: 'I toppled Saddam’s statue, now I want him back' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-36712233/i-toppled-saddam-s-statue-now-i-want-him-back https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-36712233/i-toppled-sadda... Elsewhere he said that there are now '1000 Saddams' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadhem_Sharif https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadhem_Sharif
  - Synaesthesia 7y ago
    No it wasn’t some utopia of course not, but at least the country functioned on a basic level, like it had reliable electricity and services, education and medical services (including research) and wasn’t ruined by war. How often do you see Iraqi scientists or doctors these days participate in international conferences? Whereas that used to be commonplace.
- zecg 7y ago
  That hegemony is actually bipolar in a very DSM sense of the word.

Synaesthesia 7y ago

Iraq used to not be a basket case country until it was invaded by the unipolar hegemony.

nickik 7y ago
What nonsense. Iraq has been a shitshow for a very, very long time. And I'm not endorsing the war in any way.
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  The relevant question for the people living there is allways: but is it better tody? And it seems, no.
  - lostmsu 7y ago
    You never know who gets the power after a tyranny is removed. However, if you want tyranny to go, you have to gamble.
    - hutzlibu 7y ago
      But the chances of a smooth transition are higher if the people of the country mange that by themself, instead of foreign forced change, where many suspect the motives are different.
      - nickik 7y ago
        You are ignoring that the US is not the only forign power. In a time of state collapse, other state will always have the upper hand. Even if the US had not tried to create their kind of government, Iran sure as shit was trying to get their guys in. So for the US its not about a question about US control, Iraqi control. Its a question of US control or Iranian control. In this case they supported mostly the same groups, ironically. Iran did en up with the upper hand by far in Iraq, meaning the US achived LITERALLY the opposite of what they wanted to achive.
  - nickik 7y ago
    But you didn't ask the relevant question. You made a statment that was wrong and I said so. Maybe next time you can just state the correct thing or ask the relevant question. If you had, I would have agree with you.
Grue3 7y ago
Imagine arguing Saddam's Iraq wasn't a basket case country. Iraqi celebrated when he was gone for a reason.
- Synaesthesia 7y ago
  It had advanced education, universities which sent scientists to participate in conferences. Of course Saddam was a tyrant but at least the country functioned.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    I saw scientists from Baghdad University at a conference in Germany a month ago. It didn’t disappear into a black hole.
  - dangerbird2 7y ago
    except for Kurdistan, which faced decades of repression, followed by civil war and blockade by the Federal government after Desert Storm. It's telling that the region most consistently abused by the Baathists ended up being the only relatively stable region in Iraq after Saddam fell
sgift 7y ago
If you were not part of the governing minority you got brutally suppressed. If you dared to voice a different opinion you got send into prison for a nice round of torture. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The invasion of Iraq was a shit show, but let's not get into history rewriting here: Living in Iraq before the invasion was not some kind of utopia. He was a brutal dictator. And people suffered for it.
- jacobush 7y ago
  And after the invasion millions more suffered for it even more. Including those suffering under Saddam. Who do you think are targeted mostly by IS? The formerly oppressed majority. The invasion made everything worse for everyone. No, you are not officially repressed by the state anymore. Instead you are oppressed by your local friendly militia. As long as we are clear on that, yes, Iraq under Saddam was shit. That's no excuse to make it worse.
- smileypete 7y ago
  >If you were not part of the governing minority you got brutally suppressed. If you dared to voice a different opinion you got send into prison for a nice round of torture. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Maybe, but: 'I toppled Saddam’s statue, now I want him back' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-36712233/i-toppled-saddam-s-statue-now-i-want-him-back https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-36712233/i-toppled-sadda... Elsewhere he said that there are now '1000 Saddams' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadhem_Sharif https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadhem_Sharif
- Synaesthesia 7y ago
  No it wasn’t some utopia of course not, but at least the country functioned on a basic level, like it had reliable electricity and services, education and medical services (including research) and wasn’t ruined by war. How often do you see Iraqi scientists or doctors these days participate in international conferences? Whereas that used to be commonplace.
zecg 7y ago
That hegemony is actually bipolar in a very DSM sense of the word.