7 ms·

I've practically stopped hearing about Tesla in the news, which must mean they're doing great. Great job, Tesla folks!

by caconym_ 7y ago

skizm 7y ago
I assume someone took away Musk's twitter privileges?
- Derek_MK 7y ago
  Yeah, the SEC did. After the contempt hearing, they had to renegotiate what constitutes "material" information as a part of their settlement, and that was essentially Musk/Tesla's wake-up call of "Oh, we only just BARELY got out of that mess". So as a result, they've actually been following what the original spirit of the settlement was meant to enforce. Of course, we're still seeing issues where Musk is getting sued for threatening workers on Twitter for unionizing, but that's a slightly different issue than lying about production predictions.
  - whamlastxmas 7y ago
    How do you know he was lying instead of just, you know, wrong?
    - mcguire 7y ago
      Which would be worse for Tesla?
      - whamlastxmas 7y ago
        Projections are not concrete numbers. It's normal for projections to not be exactly what reality turns out to be.
threeseed 7y ago
Actually they aren't doing so great. Everything has changed. Before last year it was basically just Tesla and a few token cars e.g. Leaf in the electric vehicle space. Now every car company is jumping in and any detractors e.g. BMW CEO are being swiftly moved on. And so Tesla is now competing against the most highly capitalised, profitable and experienced companies in the world. Porsche Taycan is based on every review the best EV car money can buy. VW has the ID.3/ID.4 coming out shortly which look seriously good and they have plans for 70 models to be released in the coming decade. You have startups like Rivian which are attracting significant outside funding and disrupting segments. And at the cheaper price points you have dozens of Chinese manufacturers entering the fray. Tesla is about to have the fight of their life and all while they are losing hundreds of millions each quarter.
- llsf 7y ago
  But is the size of the market growing even faster ? Tesla is making money on each car sold. But you are right, they do invest a lot in R&D and factory expansion (e.g. new factory in China starting this month to produce model 3 cars). I am still not sure if we can tell now if they are doomed, it might be too early. It is a tricky game, but as long as they make money on each car sold, and keep some technological edge (battery, manufacturing, etc.) they should be fine.
- et2o 7y ago
  People have been making that exact argument for years. There have been so many "Tesla killers" that I've lost count. None have panned out. The Taycan is roughly twice as expensive as the equivalent Model S Tesla and has greatly inferior range and, among people likely to buy electric cars, presumably less brand value. People haven't forgotten VW's emissions scandal. Let's not forget they haven't even shipped a single Taycan yet. BMW has sold a crappy, overpriced electric car/washing-machine-lookalike for years (i3) without it catching on. Furthermore, there's no real competition on the horizon just yet for the Model 3. Tesla have a 3-6 year head start on making electric cars which will be difficult to overcome.
  - threeseed 7y ago

I've practically stopped hearing about Tesla in the news, which must mean they're doing great. Great job, Tesla folks!

skizm 7y ago

I assume someone took away Musk's twitter privileges?

Derek_MK 7y ago
Yeah, the SEC did. After the contempt hearing, they had to renegotiate what constitutes "material" information as a part of their settlement, and that was essentially Musk/Tesla's wake-up call of "Oh, we only just BARELY got out of that mess". So as a result, they've actually been following what the original spirit of the settlement was meant to enforce. Of course, we're still seeing issues where Musk is getting sued for threatening workers on Twitter for unionizing, but that's a slightly different issue than lying about production predictions.
- whamlastxmas 7y ago
  How do you know he was lying instead of just, you know, wrong?
  - mcguire 7y ago
    Which would be worse for Tesla?
    - whamlastxmas 7y ago
      Projections are not concrete numbers. It's normal for projections to not be exactly what reality turns out to be.

threeseed 7y ago

Actually they aren't doing so great. Everything has changed. Before last year it was basically just Tesla and a few token cars e.g. Leaf in the electric vehicle space. Now every car company is jumping in and any detractors e.g. BMW CEO are being swiftly moved on. And so Tesla is now competing against the most highly capitalised, profitable and experienced companies in the world. Porsche Taycan is based on every review the best EV car money can buy. VW has the ID.3/ID.4 coming out shortly which look seriously good and they have plans for 70 models to be released in the coming decade. You have startups like Rivian which are attracting significant outside funding and disrupting segments. And at the cheaper price points you have dozens of Chinese manufacturers entering the fray. Tesla is about to have the fight of their life and all while they are losing hundreds of millions each quarter.

llsf 7y ago
But is the size of the market growing even faster ? Tesla is making money on each car sold. But you are right, they do invest a lot in R&D and factory expansion (e.g. new factory in China starting this month to produce model 3 cars). I am still not sure if we can tell now if they are doomed, it might be too early. It is a tricky game, but as long as they make money on each car sold, and keep some technological edge (battery, manufacturing, etc.) they should be fine.
et2o 7y ago
People have been making that exact argument for years. There have been so many "Tesla killers" that I've lost count. None have panned out. The Taycan is roughly twice as expensive as the equivalent Model S Tesla and has greatly inferior range and, among people likely to buy electric cars, presumably less brand value. People haven't forgotten VW's emissions scandal. Let's not forget they haven't even shipped a single Taycan yet. BMW has sold a crappy, overpriced electric car/washing-machine-lookalike for years (i3) without it catching on. Furthermore, there's no real competition on the horizon just yet for the Model 3. Tesla have a 3-6 year head start on making electric cars which will be difficult to overcome.
- threeseed 7y ago