4 ms·

Tangentially related; I can't fathom why the US insists on stop signs and traffic lights everywhere. A neighborhood I used to drive through on my way to work ha

by rconti 7y ago

Tangentially related; I can't fathom why the US insists on stop signs and traffic lights everywhere. A neighborhood I used to drive through on my way to work had 4 way stops sprouting up constantly. The massive waste of resources involved in hauling 2 tons of steel and glass down from speed to 0, for _absolutely no reason 99% of the time_, accelerating it back up to speed again, just to do the same, over and over, boggles the mind. The noise pollution, the air pollution, the "trash" byproducts in the form of brake dust and tire dust. Why on earth would you voluntarily do this to your neighborhood? It doesn't stop speeding; it's a crappy form of traffic control, and it makes every traffic-related measure of living near it worse. Add to all that the time wasted. I feel the same way about traffic lights, particularly the over-proliferation of red arrows everywhere, telling us that we can't judge for ourselves when it's safe to go, and instead, we have to create gridlock and extensive waits for minimal gain. Most of these problems could be solved by keeping traffic at a moderate, consistent level through the use of roundabouts, rather than the waste of constant stop-and-go. When I rule the world, there will be a ban on 4-way stops, red arrows, and parking lots without walkways. I don't even have kids, and I find it infuriating that parking lots force us to walk behind rows and rows of parked cars, hoping that we don't get run over by someone backing out of a space in one of the ever-increasingly-difficult-to-see-out-of cars we're bringing to market in the name of 'safety'.

phkahler 7y ago
Round abouts dont reduce evergy use much. If you reduce speed by 50 percent, you've still converted 75 percent of your kinetic energy to heat. I agree that many of the stopsigns are not needed.
- souprock 7y ago
  We could recover the energy. mgh = 0.5mvv Cancel out the mass, round g to 10 m/s/s, assume a velocity of 30 m/s, and solve for h: h = 45 We thus need a rotary that is elevated 45 meters above the road. That is about 150 feet. This could work for a highway, especially if it is in a road cut.
bonestamp2 7y ago
> I can't fathom why the US insists on stop signs and traffic lights everywhere. A neighborhood I used to drive through on my way to work had 4 way stops sprouting up constantly. I don't mean to sound snarky or judgemental, so please understand that is not my intention... Sometimes they do this to dissuade people from commuting to work through neighborhoods. Again, I don't mean to judge, that might be the best/safest/only/etc way for you to get to work and you may not be the target of these stop signs. There is a 4 way stop in my neighborhood that is going to be converted to a traffic circle next year to keep traffic moving. Waze currently routes a lot of traffic through our neighborhood when the freeway is backed up at rush hour. I think the traffic circle might make it worse since the "pain" of the 4 way stops will be gone so the backup might be gone but the traffic volume would be higher. I might be wrong, but I'm curious to see the final effect. I'm also not sure which is worse for overall health and safety -- the higher volume with no bottleneck or lower volume with a bottleneck.
- takk309 7y ago
  I may be being a bit of a pedant but do you mean roundabout? Traffic circles and roundabouts are different. A traffic circle, in the modern sense, does not have much horizontal deflection on the entering legs. The diameter is also smaller and there is not a truck apron. A roundabout on the other hand has some form of horizontal deflection and a truck apron. Often times a traffic circle can be installed by placing a round bit of curbing in the center of an existing intersection. These are great in low volume low speed applications such as neighborhoods. Traffic circles have a much lower capacity than a roundabout due to the low travel speeds. Again, sorry for being a pedant but I am a traffic engineer and the distinction between these two traffic control devices matters. Here is a link to roundabout specific information from the Federal Highways Administration https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabouts/ https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabo...
  - bluntfang 7y ago
    >the distinction between these two traffic control devices matters To reflect your pedantic efforts: does it matter in _this_ discussion? Colloquially they are the same thing when not having a technical discussion.
ilyagr 7y ago
I prefer stop signs to roundabouts. In Ireland, I experienced several low-radius roundabouts in succession, and they always made me nauseous. If roundabouts are made large enough to be pleasant, they are fine but take up a lot of space. I'm very impressed with countries that slow down traffic by making the street a little narrower.
megaremote 7y ago
> The massive waste of resources involved in hauling 2 tons of steel and glass down from speed to 0 Even without slowing down this is huge waste of resources. The fact we allow people to do this is insane. > When I rule the world, there will be a ban on 4-way stops, red arrows, and parking lots without walkways. You are insane if you think you can make cars safe. They should just not be around people at all.
- kiliantics 7y ago
  Yes, somehow whenever these issues come up, it never leads to a suggestion of banning cars. Instead, there is an "angels on a pin" dissection of some obscure details that will supposedly fix the problem but that completely misses the point: cars are killing us all (pollution, carbon, obesity, degradation of city life) and need to be generally rejected for common use.

by rconti 7y ago

phkahler 7y ago

Round abouts dont reduce evergy use much. If you reduce speed by 50 percent, you've still converted 75 percent of your kinetic energy to heat. I agree that many of the stopsigns are not needed.

souprock 7y ago
We could recover the energy. mgh = 0.5mvv Cancel out the mass, round g to 10 m/s/s, assume a velocity of 30 m/s, and solve for h: h = 45 We thus need a rotary that is elevated 45 meters above the road. That is about 150 feet. This could work for a highway, especially if it is in a road cut.

bonestamp2 7y ago

> I can't fathom why the US insists on stop signs and traffic lights everywhere. A neighborhood I used to drive through on my way to work had 4 way stops sprouting up constantly. I don't mean to sound snarky or judgemental, so please understand that is not my intention... Sometimes they do this to dissuade people from commuting to work through neighborhoods. Again, I don't mean to judge, that might be the best/safest/only/etc way for you to get to work and you may not be the target of these stop signs. There is a 4 way stop in my neighborhood that is going to be converted to a traffic circle next year to keep traffic moving. Waze currently routes a lot of traffic through our neighborhood when the freeway is backed up at rush hour. I think the traffic circle might make it worse since the "pain" of the 4 way stops will be gone so the backup might be gone but the traffic volume would be higher. I might be wrong, but I'm curious to see the final effect. I'm also not sure which is worse for overall health and safety -- the higher volume with no bottleneck or lower volume with a bottleneck.

takk309 7y ago
I may be being a bit of a pedant but do you mean roundabout? Traffic circles and roundabouts are different. A traffic circle, in the modern sense, does not have much horizontal deflection on the entering legs. The diameter is also smaller and there is not a truck apron. A roundabout on the other hand has some form of horizontal deflection and a truck apron. Often times a traffic circle can be installed by placing a round bit of curbing in the center of an existing intersection. These are great in low volume low speed applications such as neighborhoods. Traffic circles have a much lower capacity than a roundabout due to the low travel speeds. Again, sorry for being a pedant but I am a traffic engineer and the distinction between these two traffic control devices matters. Here is a link to roundabout specific information from the Federal Highways Administration https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabouts/ https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabo...
- bluntfang 7y ago
  >the distinction between these two traffic control devices matters To reflect your pedantic efforts: does it matter in _this_ discussion? Colloquially they are the same thing when not having a technical discussion.

ilyagr 7y ago

I prefer stop signs to roundabouts. In Ireland, I experienced several low-radius roundabouts in succession, and they always made me nauseous. If roundabouts are made large enough to be pleasant, they are fine but take up a lot of space. I'm very impressed with countries that slow down traffic by making the street a little narrower.

megaremote 7y ago

> The massive waste of resources involved in hauling 2 tons of steel and glass down from speed to 0 Even without slowing down this is huge waste of resources. The fact we allow people to do this is insane. > When I rule the world, there will be a ban on 4-way stops, red arrows, and parking lots without walkways. You are insane if you think you can make cars safe. They should just not be around people at all.

kiliantics 7y ago
Yes, somehow whenever these issues come up, it never leads to a suggestion of banning cars. Instead, there is an "angels on a pin" dissection of some obscure details that will supposedly fix the problem but that completely misses the point: cars are killing us all (pollution, carbon, obesity, degradation of city life) and need to be generally rejected for common use.