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Right, that's their point: game, elk/deer/moose, will avoid areas where there are active hunters and seem to have a sixth sense about where those boundaries are

Right, that's their point: game, elk/deer/moose, will avoid areas where there are active hunters and seem to have a sixth sense about where those boundaries are, for instance retreating to game preserves on the first day of the hunting season for similar reasons to why the vultures respect borders (prey vs. predators)

mc32 7y ago
The farmers aren’t targeting vultures directly. I mean the title is akin to saying “Starbucks uncannily observes landmasses when putting in new stores —they haven’t been observed to put them in the middle of the ocean (barring cruise ships). Or “Lions avoid the actual Sahara desert”.
- Ensorceled 7y ago
  You're missing the point. In both cases, the animals are respecting invisible borders, in one case because there is no prey on the other side and in the other because there are predators on the other side. It's similar, not exactly the same, and respecting the invisible border is the point.
  - celticninja 7y ago
    I think they adhere to, rather than respect, the border.
maxerickson 7y ago
I think much of the explanation for animals like elk is that they just shy away from humans on foot. That activity increases lots during hunting seasons.
- yesbabyyes 7y ago
  Where I grew up in Sweden, the moose will be pretty much fearless nowadays. Last summer, one was standing not three meters outside my window, staring at me. A few years ago a cow and her calves would stop by the road, and look curiously at us in- and outside the car, while moving nearer, not further away. Not in a threatening way, nota bene. There are also people walking dogs, picking mushrooms, tending to forest and fields, etc. Still, when hunting season is afoot, they are always somewhere else. I know of one of their hiding places in particular, a small but shielded patch of forest where you can't shoot. It's not surprising--they are being hunted--but it's not the same behavior as when it's people without guns, outside of hunting season.
  - berkes 7y ago
    Would be interesting to learn what triggers this behaviour. People suddenly bantering through areas that normally are left alone? Seeing rifles? Sounds of shooting?
    - opwieurposiu 7y ago
      I think prey animals have a sense of when a predator is actively hunting vs. just happens to be in the area. Humans kinda act like cats when hunting, walk very low and quiet, use cover for concealment, frequent hard stares, etc. Humans just out for a hike do not act like that.
- lukeschlather 7y ago
  I used to live in a small mountain village in the US, in the middle of a wilderness area. A mile or so around the village is not considered wilderness, and hunting is banned there. It's the largest group of people for miles and miles but the deer have no compunction about coming into the village. They even tend to come there to give birth. They know the hunters don't hunt there.
- alchemism 7y ago
  I once saw a nursing deer lead her fawns into an active shooting range in midsummer. Everyone had to stop shooting and watch them play around the targets. This occurred in an area where it was only legal to hunt them in autumn and winter. They somehow know that we humans become murderous but are safe at other times...
- tzs 7y ago
  It's also possible that they can recognize some human equipment, and shy away when humans with guns start showing up. A good example along those lines is Gunnison's prairie dogs. They have a variety of warning calls for different dangers, and they also have modifiers for some of them to better call out what they are warning about. For the warning call for intruding humans, they have modifiers based on the colors of the human's clothes, and based on whether or not the human has a gun. I wonder if elk are smart enough to pass along the word that the humans with guns are around. Here's a few links about these the prairie dogs and their communication: http://www.animalcognition.org/2015/03/11/the-linguistic-genius-of-prairie-dogs/ http://www.animalcognition.org/2015/03/11/the-linguistic-gen... https://medium.com/health-and-biological-research-news/prairie-dog-chatter-the-science-behind-a-new-language-9144ace4114f https://medium.com/health-and-biological-research-news/prair... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/magazine/can-prairie-dogs-talk.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/magazine/can-prairie-dogs... https://www.npr.org/2011/01/20/132650631/new-language-discovered-prairiedogese https://www.npr.org/2011/01/20/132650631/new-language-discov...
gruez 7y ago
>[...] for instance retreating to game preserves on the first day of the hunting season [...] I doubt that animals can tie obesrable phenomna (eg. lunar cycles or solar azimuth) to a human calendar date with day level accuracy, because of how small the differences between each day is and how arbitrary the human calendar can be. It's much more likely it's due to human activity such as increased traffic noises/gun shots on the start of the hunting season.
- celticninja 7y ago
  Birds migrate seasonally no reason an elk can't learn the need to migrate. Perhaps"day one of hunting season" is hyperbole but the jist may be true.
- lallysingh 7y ago
  Probably other indicators, like the sounds of trucks, smells of gunpowder, etc.
- sandworm101 7y ago
  They hear/smell the hunters, thier trucks, and thier dogs. When a unussual number of pickups start driving into the woods at 5am, it is time to retreat.
- Ensorceled 7y ago
  Day one of hunting season is when the hunters enter the woods and start hunting. I’m not saying they migrate to safe places the day before.

mc32 7y ago

The farmers aren’t targeting vultures directly. I mean the title is akin to saying “Starbucks uncannily observes landmasses when putting in new stores —they haven’t been observed to put them in the middle of the ocean (barring cruise ships). Or “Lions avoid the actual Sahara desert”.

Ensorceled 7y ago
You're missing the point. In both cases, the animals are respecting invisible borders, in one case because there is no prey on the other side and in the other because there are predators on the other side. It's similar, not exactly the same, and respecting the invisible border is the point.
- celticninja 7y ago
  I think they adhere to, rather than respect, the border.

maxerickson 7y ago

I think much of the explanation for animals like elk is that they just shy away from humans on foot. That activity increases lots during hunting seasons.

yesbabyyes 7y ago
Where I grew up in Sweden, the moose will be pretty much fearless nowadays. Last summer, one was standing not three meters outside my window, staring at me. A few years ago a cow and her calves would stop by the road, and look curiously at us in- and outside the car, while moving nearer, not further away. Not in a threatening way, nota bene. There are also people walking dogs, picking mushrooms, tending to forest and fields, etc. Still, when hunting season is afoot, they are always somewhere else. I know of one of their hiding places in particular, a small but shielded patch of forest where you can't shoot. It's not surprising--they are being hunted--but it's not the same behavior as when it's people without guns, outside of hunting season.
- berkes 7y ago
  Would be interesting to learn what triggers this behaviour. People suddenly bantering through areas that normally are left alone? Seeing rifles? Sounds of shooting?
  - opwieurposiu 7y ago
    I think prey animals have a sense of when a predator is actively hunting vs. just happens to be in the area. Humans kinda act like cats when hunting, walk very low and quiet, use cover for concealment, frequent hard stares, etc. Humans just out for a hike do not act like that.
lukeschlather 7y ago
I used to live in a small mountain village in the US, in the middle of a wilderness area. A mile or so around the village is not considered wilderness, and hunting is banned there. It's the largest group of people for miles and miles but the deer have no compunction about coming into the village. They even tend to come there to give birth. They know the hunters don't hunt there.
alchemism 7y ago
I once saw a nursing deer lead her fawns into an active shooting range in midsummer. Everyone had to stop shooting and watch them play around the targets. This occurred in an area where it was only legal to hunt them in autumn and winter. They somehow know that we humans become murderous but are safe at other times...
tzs 7y ago
It's also possible that they can recognize some human equipment, and shy away when humans with guns start showing up. A good example along those lines is Gunnison's prairie dogs. They have a variety of warning calls for different dangers, and they also have modifiers for some of them to better call out what they are warning about. For the warning call for intruding humans, they have modifiers based on the colors of the human's clothes, and based on whether or not the human has a gun. I wonder if elk are smart enough to pass along the word that the humans with guns are around. Here's a few links about these the prairie dogs and their communication: http://www.animalcognition.org/2015/03/11/the-linguistic-genius-of-prairie-dogs/ http://www.animalcognition.org/2015/03/11/the-linguistic-gen... https://medium.com/health-and-biological-research-news/prairie-dog-chatter-the-science-behind-a-new-language-9144ace4114f https://medium.com/health-and-biological-research-news/prair... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/magazine/can-prairie-dogs-talk.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/magazine/can-prairie-dogs... https://www.npr.org/2011/01/20/132650631/new-language-discovered-prairiedogese https://www.npr.org/2011/01/20/132650631/new-language-discov...

gruez 7y ago

>[...] for instance retreating to game preserves on the first day of the hunting season [...] I doubt that animals can tie obesrable phenomna (eg. lunar cycles or solar azimuth) to a human calendar date with day level accuracy, because of how small the differences between each day is and how arbitrary the human calendar can be. It's much more likely it's due to human activity such as increased traffic noises/gun shots on the start of the hunting season.

celticninja 7y ago
Birds migrate seasonally no reason an elk can't learn the need to migrate. Perhaps"day one of hunting season" is hyperbole but the jist may be true.
lallysingh 7y ago
Probably other indicators, like the sounds of trucks, smells of gunpowder, etc.
sandworm101 7y ago
They hear/smell the hunters, thier trucks, and thier dogs. When a unussual number of pickups start driving into the woods at 5am, it is time to retreat.
Ensorceled 7y ago
Day one of hunting season is when the hunters enter the woods and start hunting. I’m not saying they migrate to safe places the day before.