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For comparison sake, sales tax, gas tax and so on would not be considered under tax by someone living in Europe in that sort of calculation. People would mean i

For comparison sake, sales tax, gas tax and so on would not be considered under tax by someone living in Europe in that sort of calculation. People would mean income and social tax.

darawk 7y ago
That's not a Europe/US thing. Most Americans wouldn't count them either. However, they're both wrong to not count them. They absolutely count.
- arcticbull 7y ago
  They're fundamentally different, one is a progressive tax designed to support a civil society (income tax) and the other is a regressive usage-based tax designed to dis-incentivize behavior such as smoking, drinking and using gas/private automobiles. One's a benefit driver, the other is designed a penalty or market force.
  - darawk 7y ago
    Ok, but they are both taxes, yes? And they both diminish your effective income. So, when calculating the relative tax burden between countries, they both count.
    - arcticbull 7y ago
      They do both diminish your income, but only if you insist on doing things society doesn't want you to do. Driving is optional, smoking is optional, drinking is optional. You can opt out by changing your lifestyle to be healthier and more sustainable -- in which case you'd not pay that tax in either country. Income tax isn't optional.
      - darawk 7y ago
        Sure, but you either are or are not willing to make those changes, and you presumably already have made them to the extent that you're willing. Whatever burden ends up being imposed based on your consumption habits simply is what it is.
        arcticbull 7y ago
        True of course, but hard to factor in. If you move from rural America where a car is required the gas tax burden is going to drop substantially if you move to Amsterdam where nobody has cars, even if the gas tax is 3X higher. I definitely see your point, it's not easy to directly translate.
        darawk 7y ago
        Ya you just have to scale by lifestyle factors. If the lifestyle factors are likely to change with location, then you definitely need to account for that with respect to your personal situation.
- pkaye 7y ago
  Some Americans don't even count the FICA taxes (social security/medicare contributions) as taxes. That way they can claim that the poor don't pay any taxes.

For comparison sake, sales tax, gas tax and so on would not be considered under tax by someone living in Europe in that sort of calculation. People would mean income and social tax.

darawk 7y ago

That's not a Europe/US thing. Most Americans wouldn't count them either. However, they're both wrong to not count them. They absolutely count.

arcticbull 7y ago
They're fundamentally different, one is a progressive tax designed to support a civil society (income tax) and the other is a regressive usage-based tax designed to dis-incentivize behavior such as smoking, drinking and using gas/private automobiles. One's a benefit driver, the other is designed a penalty or market force.
- darawk 7y ago
  Ok, but they are both taxes, yes? And they both diminish your effective income. So, when calculating the relative tax burden between countries, they both count.
  - arcticbull 7y ago
    They do both diminish your income, but only if you insist on doing things society doesn't want you to do. Driving is optional, smoking is optional, drinking is optional. You can opt out by changing your lifestyle to be healthier and more sustainable -- in which case you'd not pay that tax in either country. Income tax isn't optional.
    - darawk 7y ago
      Sure, but you either are or are not willing to make those changes, and you presumably already have made them to the extent that you're willing. Whatever burden ends up being imposed based on your consumption habits simply is what it is.
      - arcticbull 7y ago
        True of course, but hard to factor in. If you move from rural America where a car is required the gas tax burden is going to drop substantially if you move to Amsterdam where nobody has cars, even if the gas tax is 3X higher. I definitely see your point, it's not easy to directly translate.
        darawk 7y ago
        Ya you just have to scale by lifestyle factors. If the lifestyle factors are likely to change with location, then you definitely need to account for that with respect to your personal situation.
pkaye 7y ago
Some Americans don't even count the FICA taxes (social security/medicare contributions) as taxes. That way they can claim that the poor don't pay any taxes.