8 ms·

I'm going to pick one up regardless, but if they can bring Windows 10 X to this device, and provide a docking experience that expands to approximate a full PC,

by bhauer 7y ago

I'm going to pick one up regardless, but if they can bring Windows 10 X to this device, and provide a docking experience that expands to approximate a full PC, the result would be fantastic.

aminecodes 7y ago
They already said it runs on Android, whith what looks like a heavy Microsoft like skin on top.
- bhauer 7y ago
  Indeed they did, but this is a device still in development, to be released late 2020. I would not be surprised if the Windows 10 X team is working to make it at least possible to run 10 X on the smaller device. I'd much prefer 10 X with an Android subsystem. But like I said, I'll pick one up regardless.
  - sequence7 7y ago
    I'm sure it could run 10 X easily enough, the problem is the same problem that killed the Windows Phone ecosystem. No one's developing mobile/touch apps for anything other than Android and iOS. Windows has been fully touch enabled for years now but still there are almost no apps that take advantage of that, there isn't even a decent kindle app in the microsoft store. I wish this wasn't true but the truth is mobile belongs to Apple and Google and tablets belong to Apple.
    - bhauer 7y ago
      Which is why I'd like an Android subsystem. I want the basic UI experience and default apps to be Windows 10 X. For 90% of my phone usage, I'm using the stock apps (launcher, email, browser, calendar, etc.), and I'd prefer that to be the 10 X experience rather than Android. I want Android to feel like an app safety net, not the primary experience. But like I said before, even without that, it's still the right device for me.
      - sequence7 7y ago
        Ah yes I missed the bit where you mentioned the Android subsystem.
    - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
      Yeah, but that raises the question as to what's the upside for Microsoft for building the Duo? Why divert expensive engineering resources to become just another niche Android phone vendor and help shovel money into Google's pockets on top of that?
- matteopey 7y ago
  The only thing they said is that they "are building upon Android". I think it could both means that they are using Android as an OS or that they built some kind of WSL-like subsystem. The latter scenario is more interesting because it would open up the possibility to run UWP apps that can also run on Windows 10 X, both leveraging the two screens.
mc32 7y ago
It looks nice in theory. I’d like to see it also support some version of win10. I might get one regardless, but if it ran win10, it’d be a slam dunk.
- cptskippy 7y ago
  Google introduced project Treble in Android O and P to allow Android to work against a HAL to basically decouple the underlying Linux Kernel and drivers from the over arching Android Framework. There was speculation that this would enable Google to swap out the Linux Kernel for Fuschia when it becomes available. The Windows NT Kernel has had a HAL and the ability to do this since it's inception in the 90s. Microsoft has been toying around with WSL on the desktop, what are the chances that they just beat Google to the punch and are running Android on the Windows Kernel? How crazy would it be if WSL was just a cover for getting Android running ontop the Windows Kernel?
  - worg 7y ago
    IIRC WSL1 used a kernel compatibility layer, WSL2 uses a virtual machine [with the albeit minimal but very real overhead] so I find difficult to imagine they running android on top of NT [whatever they're calling the kernel nowadays]
    - cptskippy 7y ago
      > [whatever they're calling the kernel nowadays] I think they renamed the NT Kernel to Windows Kernel to simplify things but in usual Microsoft fashion it just complicates comparing or discussing Today with Yesterday.
  - core-questions 7y ago
    Best mad theory I've seen in a while.
    - lisnake 7y ago
      It's not a theory, it is well known fact that first versions of WSL were developed for running Android apps on Windows RT
numbsafari 7y ago
Good luck. It's not shipping until "Holiday 2020"... if ever. Announcing products like this should be reported on as an embarrassment for the companies that do it.
- chenzhekl 7y ago
  I guess Microsoft just wants to give developers enough time to adapt their applications to this new platform.
  - jazoom 7y ago
    Except I'd have no idea how much time I had. When is "holidays"?
chooseaname 7y ago
This is still my holy grail of computing device. I want a portable device (phone) that gives me a phone style interface when portable, but when docked, a desktop-like experience. Yes, there have been efforts, but I want this to be mainstream and well thought out.
- ijidak 7y ago
  Agree! Will somebody please make this! I want to simply have a keyboard and screen that "looks like a laptop" but the brains is actually in the phone in my pocket! And then when I have a proper dock, I just get a larger monitor(s) and larger desktop keyboard. But the brains are still in the phone! The key benefit (of the dumb laptop, especially) is I still want a laptop on the go, but.. 1. Why manage data flow across two separate devices. My phone becomes truth, always. 2. My phone already has always-on data. Why worry about data for two devices. (To 4/5-g subscriptions, etc.) Searching for wi-fi. 3. Better power consumption for my "dumb laptop" device. (Less processing power in the laptop, hopefully space for a bigger battery) I would buy this in a heartbeat!
  - i-am-cjc 7y ago
    I have a NexDock that I think was a kickstarter a few years ago that is a dumb laptop (hdmi in, usb for charging, bluetooth keyboard and mouse) that could be plugged into a phone. Used it for Raspberry Pis and Intel Compute sticks for a while. I am hoping I can do this with the librem5 and a dock.
- tga 7y ago
  Samsung DeX is currently the most popular (only?) implementation of that, and it's decent in my opinion -- especially if what you really need is a desktop-sized browser. https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/apps/samsung-dex/ https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/apps/samsung-dex/

by bhauer 7y ago

I'm going to pick one up regardless, but if they can bring Windows 10 X to this device, and provide a docking experience that expands to approximate a full PC, the result would be fantastic.

aminecodes 7y ago

They already said it runs on Android, whith what looks like a heavy Microsoft like skin on top.

bhauer 7y ago
Indeed they did, but this is a device still in development, to be released late 2020. I would not be surprised if the Windows 10 X team is working to make it at least possible to run 10 X on the smaller device. I'd much prefer 10 X with an Android subsystem. But like I said, I'll pick one up regardless.
- sequence7 7y ago
  I'm sure it could run 10 X easily enough, the problem is the same problem that killed the Windows Phone ecosystem. No one's developing mobile/touch apps for anything other than Android and iOS. Windows has been fully touch enabled for years now but still there are almost no apps that take advantage of that, there isn't even a decent kindle app in the microsoft store. I wish this wasn't true but the truth is mobile belongs to Apple and Google and tablets belong to Apple.
  - bhauer 7y ago
    Which is why I'd like an Android subsystem. I want the basic UI experience and default apps to be Windows 10 X. For 90% of my phone usage, I'm using the stock apps (launcher, email, browser, calendar, etc.), and I'd prefer that to be the 10 X experience rather than Android. I want Android to feel like an app safety net, not the primary experience. But like I said before, even without that, it's still the right device for me.
    - sequence7 7y ago
      Ah yes I missed the bit where you mentioned the Android subsystem.
  - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
    Yeah, but that raises the question as to what's the upside for Microsoft for building the Duo? Why divert expensive engineering resources to become just another niche Android phone vendor and help shovel money into Google's pockets on top of that?
matteopey 7y ago
The only thing they said is that they "are building upon Android". I think it could both means that they are using Android as an OS or that they built some kind of WSL-like subsystem. The latter scenario is more interesting because it would open up the possibility to run UWP apps that can also run on Windows 10 X, both leveraging the two screens.

mc32 7y ago

It looks nice in theory. I’d like to see it also support some version of win10. I might get one regardless, but if it ran win10, it’d be a slam dunk.

cptskippy 7y ago
Google introduced project Treble in Android O and P to allow Android to work against a HAL to basically decouple the underlying Linux Kernel and drivers from the over arching Android Framework. There was speculation that this would enable Google to swap out the Linux Kernel for Fuschia when it becomes available. The Windows NT Kernel has had a HAL and the ability to do this since it's inception in the 90s. Microsoft has been toying around with WSL on the desktop, what are the chances that they just beat Google to the punch and are running Android on the Windows Kernel? How crazy would it be if WSL was just a cover for getting Android running ontop the Windows Kernel?
- worg 7y ago
  IIRC WSL1 used a kernel compatibility layer, WSL2 uses a virtual machine [with the albeit minimal but very real overhead] so I find difficult to imagine they running android on top of NT [whatever they're calling the kernel nowadays]
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    > [whatever they're calling the kernel nowadays] I think they renamed the NT Kernel to Windows Kernel to simplify things but in usual Microsoft fashion it just complicates comparing or discussing Today with Yesterday.
- core-questions 7y ago
  Best mad theory I've seen in a while.
  - lisnake 7y ago
    It's not a theory, it is well known fact that first versions of WSL were developed for running Android apps on Windows RT

numbsafari 7y ago

Good luck. It's not shipping until "Holiday 2020"... if ever. Announcing products like this should be reported on as an embarrassment for the companies that do it.

chenzhekl 7y ago
I guess Microsoft just wants to give developers enough time to adapt their applications to this new platform.
- jazoom 7y ago
  Except I'd have no idea how much time I had. When is "holidays"?

chooseaname 7y ago

This is still my holy grail of computing device. I want a portable device (phone) that gives me a phone style interface when portable, but when docked, a desktop-like experience. Yes, there have been efforts, but I want this to be mainstream and well thought out.

ijidak 7y ago
Agree! Will somebody please make this! I want to simply have a keyboard and screen that "looks like a laptop" but the brains is actually in the phone in my pocket! And then when I have a proper dock, I just get a larger monitor(s) and larger desktop keyboard. But the brains are still in the phone! The key benefit (of the dumb laptop, especially) is I still want a laptop on the go, but.. 1. Why manage data flow across two separate devices. My phone becomes truth, always. 2. My phone already has always-on data. Why worry about data for two devices. (To 4/5-g subscriptions, etc.) Searching for wi-fi. 3. Better power consumption for my "dumb laptop" device. (Less processing power in the laptop, hopefully space for a bigger battery) I would buy this in a heartbeat!
- i-am-cjc 7y ago
  I have a NexDock that I think was a kickstarter a few years ago that is a dumb laptop (hdmi in, usb for charging, bluetooth keyboard and mouse) that could be plugged into a phone. Used it for Raspberry Pis and Intel Compute sticks for a while. I am hoping I can do this with the librem5 and a dock.
tga 7y ago
Samsung DeX is currently the most popular (only?) implementation of that, and it's decent in my opinion -- especially if what you really need is a desktop-sized browser. https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/apps/samsung-dex/ https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/apps/samsung-dex/