8 ms·

To those who support the demonetization of conservative content: it's truly a slippery slope. Wait until minecraft is declared a white supremacist game, and let

To those who support the demonetization of conservative content: it's truly a slippery slope. Wait until minecraft is declared a white supremacist game, and let's watch Youtube torch themselves even harder.

homonculus1 7y ago
I can already see the "Meincraft" hoax screenshots from 4chan
- bonerman69 7y ago
  Classic
- mieseratte 7y ago
  "Mein Kraft" has a nice Hitlerian ring to it. I can see the criticisms now: "These racists are using Mein Kraft to achieve power through the joy of gaming!"
spamizbad 7y ago
LGBTQ content being demonetized has been going on for ages, long before the more recent controversy around conservative content. This was a major concern going back to 2011. Youtube's justification at the time was that content that made references to LGBTQ matters may not be appropriate for all audiences. Like the censorship of ISIS content, LGBTQ content censorship was celebrated by the same people now lamenting "conservative" demonetization.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > LGBTQ content censorship was celebrated by the same people now lamenting "conservative" demonetization. The "same people?" All of them? Since when does "Conservative" equal "anti-LGBT?" You do know there exists LGBT conservatives, yes?
  - jswizzy 7y ago
    Peter Thiel is a log cabin conservative. He was outed by Gawkier and funded the Hogan lawsuit to get justice for it.
  - fzeroracer 7y ago
    Since the conservative movement as a whole has been generally moving to deny LGBTQ people the right to marry (see: attempts to overturn Obergefell in conservative states), the right to serve in the military (see: transgender military ban) and the right to not be discriminated against (see: masterpiece cakeshop). I'm not going to deny that there are LGBT conservatives. But the fact is that conservative politicians as a whole demonize LGBTQ people and have attempted multiple times to censor them [1] or bar them from aid. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19976398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19976398
    - mieseratte 7y ago
      > But the fact is that conservative politicians as a whole demonize LGBTQ "As a whole" they do not. There exists many who do, to paint it part and parcel of conservatism is incorrect. One could just as well claim it's not their conservatism, but religious beliefs.
      - happytoexplain 7y ago
        I would argue "as a whole" describes the situation prudently. After all, the parent is pointing specifically at politicians even - not just all people. "In general", "overall", "on average", and "prominently" also all work I think.
        mieseratte 7y ago
        Using weasel-words doesn't absolve ad hominem.
    - fulvous 7y ago
      Conservatives like Obama in 2008?
gruez 7y ago
>Wait until minecraft is declared a white supremacist game what?
- flyingfences 7y ago
  A lot of people are angry that Notch (the guy who made the game) isn't just another SV "progressive" and so use him as a scapegoat for everything that's "wrong" with gamers.
  - WilliamEdward 7y ago
    This is not happening. What is happening, is notch tweeting reactionary opinion pieces on twitter and people are irritated by it. No one thinks he represents all gamers or their perceived 'wrongness', and no one expects him to fit into some imaginary SV mould.
  - happytoexplain 7y ago
    I don't see this at all. He's rarely pointed at as some kind of proxy for gamers, and the responses to his statements have arguably been reasonable and direct. I don't know why you would think anybody expects random Swedes to be "just another SV 'progressive'", but it sounds like you're using that phrase to stand in as an insult.
- patorjk 7y ago
  I think this is a reference to PewDiePie recently focusing a lot of his content on Minecraft and how the media has gone after him on a number of occations. The concern would be in trying to attack PewDiePie, the media would attack what he is doing and label that as bad (similar to how the OK hand gesture was labeled as a white supremacist sign by the ADL). This is just my assumption though.
  - happytoexplain 7y ago
    >the OK hand gesture was labeled as a white supremacist sign by the ADL I'm not 100% sure you're criticising that, so if you're not, please take this comment as directed at the many other times I have seen it criticized on HN and elsewhere: It always surprises me to see fairly smart people throw this out there like it's obviously silly. Communication is based simply on actual usage of language and symbols. If a bunch of people want to associate a symbol (especially one that's still ubiquitously known but has somewhat fallen out of popular real-world usage) with something very controversial and offensive, then they can realistically do that by simply using the symbol that way, even if they're only doing it as a hilarious joke. Then it just means that sometimes (depending on context), until they stop using it that way. If people are, in practice, using a symbol to mean a certain thing, then it means that thing (with the likelihood of meaning being a function of context). I don't have to think about it or philosophize about it when I see it - it comes naturally based on context, because that's how language works. If I've seen 10 usages of <Mercury-symbol> to mean "Mercury" in the past 5 years, and 75 usages of it to mean "kill all the elderly" in the past year, then when I see somebody who seems antagonistic write <Mercury-symbol> with no planetary context in sight, I can reasonably assume he probably means the latter, and I would probably be correct. As another example, the "V" sign means different things in different places - but if I see it in the US, I don't fret at the idea that I might misinterpret it. The fact is, in practice, it's used here to mean "peace", therefore it means "peace" at that moment. Sort of like how money works. You can't just say "no" and make the social agreement go away. *edit: I didn't know HN filtered some seemingly innocuous characters - I've replaced my usage of the Mercury symbol with <Mercury-symbol>.
whateveracct 7y ago
False equivalency. Demonetizing videos that make homophobic attacks on public figures (the "conservative" content in question) is not "the other side of the coin" to being positive about LGBTQ issues.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  False equivalency? Yours is a non-existent equivalency.
  - whateveracct 7y ago
    No it's not? It's an equivalency core to modern American politics. Marriage equality on the left vs denying business to gay couples on the right.
    - mieseratte 7y ago
      > denying business to gay couples on the right. There's no denying of business, there's just illiberal progressives seeking to force individuals speech and expression to be only what they deem socially acecptable. If some Christian baker doesn't wish to create a bespoke cake, that's within his right. Your desire to control others expression is far more toxic than someone's "right" to a bespoke desert.
      - phailhaus 7y ago
        For you to be consistent, you have to also defend the baker's right to refuse business to a black couple who requests a "bespoke cake". Do you agree with that?
        mieseratte 7y ago
        > For you to be consistent, you have to also defend the baker's right to refuse business to a black couple who requests a "bespoke cake". Entirely depends on the content of the cake, if a black couple comes along and asks for a cake with, say, Satan licking a giant black dick[0] on it the baker might reasonably demur. It isn't about refusing a couple based on their immutable attributes, it is about the content of the cake they requested. You don't have a right to force someone to create something they do not wish to create. [0] - https://www.newsweek.com/colorado-baker-protagonist-satan-dildo-cake-other-bakeries-wouldnt-create-1077250 https://www.newsweek.com/colorado-baker-protagonist-satan-di...
bonerman69 7y ago
Minecraft is in fact extremely alt-right. Borderline Nazi/kkk imo.
- bonerman69 7y ago
  My four year old LOVES Pepe. We had to cancel our internet...
  - bonerman69 7y ago
    Thank God the older ones are more submissive. They let us fill out their absentee ballots for them!
wavefunction 7y ago
I support Youtube demonetizing whatever content they want as long as they are transparent about it But that's because I believe in private property and freedom of association as well as personal responsibility for one's actions while it seems "conservatives" in 2019 do not from the public stances they have adopted in their political efforts.
swang 7y ago
lol? no one cares if you think trickle-down economics works. but people would prefer that youtubers who use slurs should not be rewarded by monetization.
happytoexplain 7y ago
I think there are extremely few people (outside of specialist political groups whose horrible job is "winning") whose goal is to demonetize politically "conservative" content, even in their own minds. The very word implies inoffensive. I think there is simply a trend of attacking the extremist trends that identify themselves as conservative, and then there is an intermediary ring of conservatives somewhere in the middle who, in a misguided tactic to defend their political identity, will throw the idea of being conservative in front of the bullets and claim the idea of being conservative is under attack.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > I think there is simply a trend of attacking the extremist trends that identify themselves as conservative 1. Outlaw "extremism" 2. Label your political enemies as "extrmist." 3. ??? 4. Eutopia
woodruffw 7y ago
I'm not particularly interested in demonetizing conservative content. I am, however, willing to support a movement that results in conservative content being demonetized if American conservatism continues to pander to and fall back on its racist and reactionary cores. It isn't clear to me why social disapprobation and pressure on the whole to excise reactionaries is inappropriate in this context.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > if American conservatism continues to pander to and fall back on its racist and reactionary cores. They don't. > It isn't clear to me why social disapprobation and pressure on the whole to excise reactionaries is inappropriate in this context. I consider the moral-fascism of modern illiberal progressive rhetoric to be rather abhorrent. Are you fine with being socially outcast?
  - woodruffw 7y ago
    > They don't. This is counterfactual, and I'm not interested in debating facts. > I consider the moral-fascism of modern illiberal progressive rhetoric to be rather abhorrent. I'm sorry, but this is word salad. You don't know any of my concrete political positions. > Are you fine with being socially outcast? I am extremely comfortable with reactionaries being socially outcast. I belong to a few different groups that are traditionally (and violently) targeted when reactionary movements gain social and political power. Minimizing the ability of reactionaries to undermine systems of government and public discourse directly serves my end of continuing to exist in a liberal democracy. I'd quote Popper, but that's a little bit too cliche at this point.
  - dang 7y ago
    Would you please stop using HN primarily for ideological battle? It's against the site guidelines, we ban accounts that do that (regardless of which ideology they're battling/for), and it seems you've been doing a lot of it.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

homonculus1 7y ago

I can already see the "Meincraft" hoax screenshots from 4chan

bonerman69 7y ago
Classic
mieseratte 7y ago
"Mein Kraft" has a nice Hitlerian ring to it. I can see the criticisms now: "These racists are using Mein Kraft to achieve power through the joy of gaming!"

spamizbad 7y ago

LGBTQ content being demonetized has been going on for ages, long before the more recent controversy around conservative content. This was a major concern going back to 2011. Youtube's justification at the time was that content that made references to LGBTQ matters may not be appropriate for all audiences. Like the censorship of ISIS content, LGBTQ content censorship was celebrated by the same people now lamenting "conservative" demonetization.

mieseratte 7y ago
> LGBTQ content censorship was celebrated by the same people now lamenting "conservative" demonetization. The "same people?" All of them? Since when does "Conservative" equal "anti-LGBT?" You do know there exists LGBT conservatives, yes?
- jswizzy 7y ago
  Peter Thiel is a log cabin conservative. He was outed by Gawkier and funded the Hogan lawsuit to get justice for it.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  Since the conservative movement as a whole has been generally moving to deny LGBTQ people the right to marry (see: attempts to overturn Obergefell in conservative states), the right to serve in the military (see: transgender military ban) and the right to not be discriminated against (see: masterpiece cakeshop). I'm not going to deny that there are LGBT conservatives. But the fact is that conservative politicians as a whole demonize LGBTQ people and have attempted multiple times to censor them [1] or bar them from aid. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19976398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19976398
  - mieseratte 7y ago
    > But the fact is that conservative politicians as a whole demonize LGBTQ "As a whole" they do not. There exists many who do, to paint it part and parcel of conservatism is incorrect. One could just as well claim it's not their conservatism, but religious beliefs.
    - happytoexplain 7y ago
      I would argue "as a whole" describes the situation prudently. After all, the parent is pointing specifically at politicians even - not just all people. "In general", "overall", "on average", and "prominently" also all work I think.
      - mieseratte 7y ago
        Using weasel-words doesn't absolve ad hominem.
  - fulvous 7y ago
    Conservatives like Obama in 2008?

gruez 7y ago

>Wait until minecraft is declared a white supremacist game what?

flyingfences 7y ago
A lot of people are angry that Notch (the guy who made the game) isn't just another SV "progressive" and so use him as a scapegoat for everything that's "wrong" with gamers.
- WilliamEdward 7y ago
  This is not happening. What is happening, is notch tweeting reactionary opinion pieces on twitter and people are irritated by it. No one thinks he represents all gamers or their perceived 'wrongness', and no one expects him to fit into some imaginary SV mould.
- happytoexplain 7y ago
  I don't see this at all. He's rarely pointed at as some kind of proxy for gamers, and the responses to his statements have arguably been reasonable and direct. I don't know why you would think anybody expects random Swedes to be "just another SV 'progressive'", but it sounds like you're using that phrase to stand in as an insult.
patorjk 7y ago
I think this is a reference to PewDiePie recently focusing a lot of his content on Minecraft and how the media has gone after him on a number of occations. The concern would be in trying to attack PewDiePie, the media would attack what he is doing and label that as bad (similar to how the OK hand gesture was labeled as a white supremacist sign by the ADL). This is just my assumption though.
- happytoexplain 7y ago
  >the OK hand gesture was labeled as a white supremacist sign by the ADL I'm not 100% sure you're criticising that, so if you're not, please take this comment as directed at the many other times I have seen it criticized on HN and elsewhere: It always surprises me to see fairly smart people throw this out there like it's obviously silly. Communication is based simply on actual usage of language and symbols. If a bunch of people want to associate a symbol (especially one that's still ubiquitously known but has somewhat fallen out of popular real-world usage) with something very controversial and offensive, then they can realistically do that by simply using the symbol that way, even if they're only doing it as a hilarious joke. Then it just means that sometimes (depending on context), until they stop using it that way. If people are, in practice, using a symbol to mean a certain thing, then it means that thing (with the likelihood of meaning being a function of context). I don't have to think about it or philosophize about it when I see it - it comes naturally based on context, because that's how language works. If I've seen 10 usages of <Mercury-symbol> to mean "Mercury" in the past 5 years, and 75 usages of it to mean "kill all the elderly" in the past year, then when I see somebody who seems antagonistic write <Mercury-symbol> with no planetary context in sight, I can reasonably assume he probably means the latter, and I would probably be correct. As another example, the "V" sign means different things in different places - but if I see it in the US, I don't fret at the idea that I might misinterpret it. The fact is, in practice, it's used here to mean "peace", therefore it means "peace" at that moment. Sort of like how money works. You can't just say "no" and make the social agreement go away. *edit: I didn't know HN filtered some seemingly innocuous characters - I've replaced my usage of the Mercury symbol with <Mercury-symbol>.

whateveracct 7y ago

False equivalency. Demonetizing videos that make homophobic attacks on public figures (the "conservative" content in question) is not "the other side of the coin" to being positive about LGBTQ issues.

mieseratte 7y ago
False equivalency? Yours is a non-existent equivalency.
- whateveracct 7y ago
  No it's not? It's an equivalency core to modern American politics. Marriage equality on the left vs denying business to gay couples on the right.
  - mieseratte 7y ago
    > denying business to gay couples on the right. There's no denying of business, there's just illiberal progressives seeking to force individuals speech and expression to be only what they deem socially acecptable. If some Christian baker doesn't wish to create a bespoke cake, that's within his right. Your desire to control others expression is far more toxic than someone's "right" to a bespoke desert.
    - phailhaus 7y ago
      For you to be consistent, you have to also defend the baker's right to refuse business to a black couple who requests a "bespoke cake". Do you agree with that?
      - mieseratte 7y ago
        > For you to be consistent, you have to also defend the baker's right to refuse business to a black couple who requests a "bespoke cake". Entirely depends on the content of the cake, if a black couple comes along and asks for a cake with, say, Satan licking a giant black dick[0] on it the baker might reasonably demur. It isn't about refusing a couple based on their immutable attributes, it is about the content of the cake they requested. You don't have a right to force someone to create something they do not wish to create. [0] - https://www.newsweek.com/colorado-baker-protagonist-satan-dildo-cake-other-bakeries-wouldnt-create-1077250 https://www.newsweek.com/colorado-baker-protagonist-satan-di...

bonerman69 7y ago

Minecraft is in fact extremely alt-right. Borderline Nazi/kkk imo.

bonerman69 7y ago
My four year old LOVES Pepe. We had to cancel our internet...
- bonerman69 7y ago
  Thank God the older ones are more submissive. They let us fill out their absentee ballots for them!

wavefunction 7y ago

I support Youtube demonetizing whatever content they want as long as they are transparent about it But that's because I believe in private property and freedom of association as well as personal responsibility for one's actions while it seems "conservatives" in 2019 do not from the public stances they have adopted in their political efforts.

swang 7y ago

lol? no one cares if you think trickle-down economics works. but people would prefer that youtubers who use slurs should not be rewarded by monetization.

happytoexplain 7y ago

I think there are extremely few people (outside of specialist political groups whose horrible job is "winning") whose goal is to demonetize politically "conservative" content, even in their own minds. The very word implies inoffensive. I think there is simply a trend of attacking the extremist trends that identify themselves as conservative, and then there is an intermediary ring of conservatives somewhere in the middle who, in a misguided tactic to defend their political identity, will throw the idea of being conservative in front of the bullets and claim the idea of being conservative is under attack.

mieseratte 7y ago
> I think there is simply a trend of attacking the extremist trends that identify themselves as conservative 1. Outlaw "extremism" 2. Label your political enemies as "extrmist." 3. ??? 4. Eutopia

woodruffw 7y ago

I'm not particularly interested in demonetizing conservative content. I am, however, willing to support a movement that results in conservative content being demonetized if American conservatism continues to pander to and fall back on its racist and reactionary cores. It isn't clear to me why social disapprobation and pressure on the whole to excise reactionaries is inappropriate in this context.

mieseratte 7y ago
> if American conservatism continues to pander to and fall back on its racist and reactionary cores. They don't. > It isn't clear to me why social disapprobation and pressure on the whole to excise reactionaries is inappropriate in this context. I consider the moral-fascism of modern illiberal progressive rhetoric to be rather abhorrent. Are you fine with being socially outcast?
- woodruffw 7y ago
  > They don't. This is counterfactual, and I'm not interested in debating facts. > I consider the moral-fascism of modern illiberal progressive rhetoric to be rather abhorrent. I'm sorry, but this is word salad. You don't know any of my concrete political positions. > Are you fine with being socially outcast? I am extremely comfortable with reactionaries being socially outcast. I belong to a few different groups that are traditionally (and violently) targeted when reactionary movements gain social and political power. Minimizing the ability of reactionaries to undermine systems of government and public discourse directly serves my end of continuing to exist in a liberal democracy. I'd quote Popper, but that's a little bit too cliche at this point.
- dang 7y ago
  Would you please stop using HN primarily for ideological battle? It's against the site guidelines, we ban accounts that do that (regardless of which ideology they're battling/for), and it seems you've been doing a lot of it.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]