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Related question: how would they decide who gets to be a citizen of (independent) Scotland? I expect that millions of people would try to find a link to Scotla

by J-dawg 7y ago

Related question: how would they decide who gets to be a citizen of (independent) Scotland? I expect that millions of people would try to find a link to Scotland for a chance of regaining their EU citizenship.

bengale 7y ago
My understanding is you can get Irish citizenship if you have Irish grandparents. I'd expect that to be the same and for the Scottish government to offer citizenship to current residents. My hope is to use my wife's Scottish heritage to move there in the not too distant future.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Which includes everyone born in Northern Ireland too - i.e. anyone born on the island of Ireland. A surprising proportion of Brits are eligible.
- J-dawg 7y ago
  Any UK citizen can move there while it's still part of the UK. Do you think there would be minimum residency requirements for citizenship? It's a bizarre thought that we may be seeing English illegal migrants being deported from Scotland in the not-too-distant future. Also, how quickly could Scotland join the EU? I remember that being one of the sticking points of the first independence referendum.
  - bengale 7y ago
    Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see the Scottish government make it easy to get citizenship, at least in the short term. It would be an easy PR win to show large numbers of Brits requesting Scottish citizenship.
    - alex_hitchins 7y ago
      I hope so as I'd be one of those applying and moving. The whole Brexit mess is very very depressing. I hope the mess we are making goes to bolster Europe as a whole and show how it's so much better to just get along.
arethuza 7y ago
Well, a lot would have to happen before that came about - the UK government would have to agree to Indyref2 and a majority of my fellow Scots would have to vote in favour of independence. At this stage I think it is safe to say that it is very unlikely we'll get past the first of these.
- bengale 7y ago
  If we crash out without a deal the case for a new referendum becomes a lot easier. It's a fundamental change to the Union and completely negates a large part of what the no campaign claimed where the benefits of staying together. I do think if we get a deal or just remain in the EU that Indyref2 will be much harder to sell.
- KuiN 7y ago
  It may not be as far away as you think. A lot of Scots are understandably angry at false promises from the 2014 referendum (the famous Better Together tweet [0]) and now Brexit (Scotland voted overwhelmingly to Remain). Polling is starting to show a majority in favour of Indyref2 and voting for Independence in another referendum. Plus voting intention showing SNP taking almost all of Scotland's seats in a Westminster election. They're already the third largest party in Westminster. There are talks of deals with Labour promising Indyref2 if the SNP support a Labour government. [0] https://twitter.com/uk_together/status/506899714923843584 https://twitter.com/uk_together/status/506899714923843584
TheRealSteel 7y ago
As a dual British and Australian citizen living in Scotland, how they will decide who can continue living here concerns me greatly. I wasn't born here, or even in the UK, and haven't been here for long. But, I have all the rights to live and work here now, but have no idea if I still will, or if I'll be restricted. Surely it can't be as simple as whether you were born in Scotland or not, but what will be the measure?
goatinaboat 7y ago
Scotland for a chance of regaining their EU citizenship An independent Scotland would need to rejoin the EU, it’s by no means clear it would be able to do so for years if not decades. It would need to join the Euro and it would need massive structural changes to meet the budgetary criteria to do so that would make “austerity” look like Sunday School. Having said that if they vote for it in a referendum, I wish them good luck. The SNP gets an awful lot of mileage out of calling for it but they never talk about what they would do without the Barnett Formula money.
- J-dawg 7y ago
  Yep, that's why I was careful to say 'a chance'. I remember this being a key point of the 2014 referendum - the 'Yes' side seemed to be overly optimistic about the process of joining the EU. However if Scotland has already been dragged out of the EU against the will of most of its people, it changes the terms of that debate quite a bit. A chance of joining the EU seems better than being part of a country that likely won't rejoin for many years (if ever).
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    It’s further complicated by various EU countries having regions chafing for independence that they would not like to encourage. If Scotland can leave the UK and become an EU member what happens in Spain? Or Belgium? Or even France? They will want to draw a line in the sand. It is most likely that Scotland will end up outside both the UK and the EU. The Shetland Isles, where the oil actually is, favour remaining part of the UK and if we’re honouring referendums they’ll get that option and Scotland will be left with nothing and no one. And the SNP will blame everyone but themselves.
    - spiralx 7y ago
      Well for any region that becomes independent via legal means in a fashion well-documented by international observers as being legitimate, then they'll consider allowing them to join the EU just as they would for any other country? Just because there's a Cornish separatist movement doesn't mean the EU is worried about the implications of an independent Cornwall.
ghaff 7y ago
It would be up to an (independent) Scotland to determine the rules. At the time of the last referendum relatively liberal rules were being tossed around (one parent born in Scotland as I recall being one possible criterion). Countries obviously vary a lot in how hard or easy it is to claim citizenship.
EnderMB 7y ago
During the last indyref, I'm fairly sure that anyone (British) living in Scotland at the time the referendum started would be granted Scottish citizenship, should they want it. Obviously, the circumstances have changed drastically, and since indyref2 will have far more support post-Brexit I can imagine that the SNP wouldn't necessarily need to sweeten the deal as much.

by J-dawg 7y ago

bengale 7y ago

My understanding is you can get Irish citizenship if you have Irish grandparents. I'd expect that to be the same and for the Scottish government to offer citizenship to current residents. My hope is to use my wife's Scottish heritage to move there in the not too distant future.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Which includes everyone born in Northern Ireland too - i.e. anyone born on the island of Ireland. A surprising proportion of Brits are eligible.
J-dawg 7y ago
Any UK citizen can move there while it's still part of the UK. Do you think there would be minimum residency requirements for citizenship? It's a bizarre thought that we may be seeing English illegal migrants being deported from Scotland in the not-too-distant future. Also, how quickly could Scotland join the EU? I remember that being one of the sticking points of the first independence referendum.
- bengale 7y ago
  Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see the Scottish government make it easy to get citizenship, at least in the short term. It would be an easy PR win to show large numbers of Brits requesting Scottish citizenship.
  - alex_hitchins 7y ago
    I hope so as I'd be one of those applying and moving. The whole Brexit mess is very very depressing. I hope the mess we are making goes to bolster Europe as a whole and show how it's so much better to just get along.

arethuza 7y ago

Well, a lot would have to happen before that came about - the UK government would have to agree to Indyref2 and a majority of my fellow Scots would have to vote in favour of independence. At this stage I think it is safe to say that it is very unlikely we'll get past the first of these.

bengale 7y ago
If we crash out without a deal the case for a new referendum becomes a lot easier. It's a fundamental change to the Union and completely negates a large part of what the no campaign claimed where the benefits of staying together. I do think if we get a deal or just remain in the EU that Indyref2 will be much harder to sell.
KuiN 7y ago
It may not be as far away as you think. A lot of Scots are understandably angry at false promises from the 2014 referendum (the famous Better Together tweet [0]) and now Brexit (Scotland voted overwhelmingly to Remain). Polling is starting to show a majority in favour of Indyref2 and voting for Independence in another referendum. Plus voting intention showing SNP taking almost all of Scotland's seats in a Westminster election. They're already the third largest party in Westminster. There are talks of deals with Labour promising Indyref2 if the SNP support a Labour government. [0] https://twitter.com/uk_together/status/506899714923843584 https://twitter.com/uk_together/status/506899714923843584

TheRealSteel 7y ago

As a dual British and Australian citizen living in Scotland, how they will decide who can continue living here concerns me greatly. I wasn't born here, or even in the UK, and haven't been here for long. But, I have all the rights to live and work here now, but have no idea if I still will, or if I'll be restricted. Surely it can't be as simple as whether you were born in Scotland or not, but what will be the measure?

goatinaboat 7y ago

Scotland for a chance of regaining their EU citizenship An independent Scotland would need to rejoin the EU, it’s by no means clear it would be able to do so for years if not decades. It would need to join the Euro and it would need massive structural changes to meet the budgetary criteria to do so that would make “austerity” look like Sunday School. Having said that if they vote for it in a referendum, I wish them good luck. The SNP gets an awful lot of mileage out of calling for it but they never talk about what they would do without the Barnett Formula money.

J-dawg 7y ago
Yep, that's why I was careful to say 'a chance'. I remember this being a key point of the 2014 referendum - the 'Yes' side seemed to be overly optimistic about the process of joining the EU. However if Scotland has already been dragged out of the EU against the will of most of its people, it changes the terms of that debate quite a bit. A chance of joining the EU seems better than being part of a country that likely won't rejoin for many years (if ever).
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  It’s further complicated by various EU countries having regions chafing for independence that they would not like to encourage. If Scotland can leave the UK and become an EU member what happens in Spain? Or Belgium? Or even France? They will want to draw a line in the sand. It is most likely that Scotland will end up outside both the UK and the EU. The Shetland Isles, where the oil actually is, favour remaining part of the UK and if we’re honouring referendums they’ll get that option and Scotland will be left with nothing and no one. And the SNP will blame everyone but themselves.
  - spiralx 7y ago
    Well for any region that becomes independent via legal means in a fashion well-documented by international observers as being legitimate, then they'll consider allowing them to join the EU just as they would for any other country? Just because there's a Cornish separatist movement doesn't mean the EU is worried about the implications of an independent Cornwall.

ghaff 7y ago

It would be up to an (independent) Scotland to determine the rules. At the time of the last referendum relatively liberal rules were being tossed around (one parent born in Scotland as I recall being one possible criterion). Countries obviously vary a lot in how hard or easy it is to claim citizenship.

EnderMB 7y ago

During the last indyref, I'm fairly sure that anyone (British) living in Scotland at the time the referendum started would be granted Scottish citizenship, should they want it. Obviously, the circumstances have changed drastically, and since indyref2 will have far more support post-Brexit I can imagine that the SNP wouldn't necessarily need to sweeten the deal as much.