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A few years ago my bank had a mini-branch in my local chain grocery store. They had a counter and some tellers working behind it. I went to it really often beca

by dawg- 7y ago

A few years ago my bank had a mini-branch in my local chain grocery store. They had a counter and some tellers working behind it. I went to it really often because I was being paid in cash at the time waiting tables. The employees were super nice, they all seemed like they were friends, and I kind of became buddies with them over my time of being a regular customer. Not all bank tellers are pleasant customer service people, but this group just had a good vibe I guess. One day I try go to the bank and the counter was ripped out and drywalled over, and in its place is a giant ATM machine. It's like an ATM machine on steroids that can do anything with your account. And if you had issues there was a screen on it that would connect you to a call center in Bangladesh or wherever. Some corporate bank employee was posted next to the machine to explain the change to people who had questions. When I walked up a group of people were standing around listening to him talk, they looked ready to pull out the pitchforks. He assured us that all of the tellers were still employed, they were just working "behind the scenes". I didn't buy that at all, and neither did anyone else. I continued to use the machine to deposit my cash, but it really sucked. I mean the machine worked absolutely fine. But it sucked to imagine how those tellers felt to be replaced by it. Now that I don't get paid in cash, I don't even go to a physical bank at all. I deposit checks on my phone in the rare occasion I need to do that. I'm still not sure how to feel about this. I want to hate it but it feels a little irrational. Maybe all of those tellers went to a coding bootcamp and now make triple their salary designing the ATM machines? Seems like that's how the story is supposed to go. But probably not. Nothing I can do about it anyway.

softwaredoug 7y ago
Honestly if simple banking is handled by automation, isn’t there room for differentiation for more “human” banking that empowers people to understand and use more complex financial instruments?
- dawg- 7y ago
  I don't know. Maybe. I am just talking about the experience of seeing a person's face every day, looking them in the eye, making small talk, interacting with other customers in the bank. That kind of every day stuff has value. I think we can mourn our losses while also looking forward to the new opportunities created. It doesn't have to be all good or all bad. Anyway, I'm not sure I completely understand your comment. Are human bank tellers impeding people from using "more complex financial instruments"?
  - ikeyany 7y ago
    > I am just talking about the experience of seeing a person's face every day, looking them in the eye, making small talk, interacting with other customers in the bank. That kind of every day stuff has value. Yes, but this value is clearly less than the value provided by automated convenience. Isn't this why you don't go to a physical bank at all? It seems like the problem is that the people who are "automated away" should be able to get by somehow, even if that means entering retraining or adding a safety net for those unable to transition somehow. I'm not sure how many viable solutions of substance we'll come us with, considering our day job is programming computers, not crunching intentionally complex economic policy.
- antisthenes 7y ago
  Yes, that's called investment, financial advising and wealth management.
  - softwaredoug 7y ago
    It is - but what you're describing isn't available from experts at "every grocery store" scale
txdv 7y ago
> Maybe all of those tellers went to a coding bootcamp and now make triple their salary designing the ATM machines? Of course, that is where all the unemployed people go.
repolfx 7y ago
They probably didn't go into coding. Some of them will have gone into other customer service roles. It's not like they had to be an expert in banking. A few may have gone on to more general office jobs with titles like, "Marketing Associate" where they make PowerPoint slides all day. Some might be in worse jobs now. But, given low unemployment figures, some might well be in better jobs. Not many people aim to spend their life working as a bank teller anyway.
- dawg- 7y ago
  >Not many people aim to spend their life working as a bank teller anyway. Very good point. But as low-skill customer service jobs go, it's a great stepping stone for someone who is yet to figure out their career path. What happens when all those stepping stones are automated away and we only have high-level jobs left? I think it doesn't bode well for economic mobility.
dropit_sphere 7y ago
All this effort into designing these big machines, and banks still won't just give me an api...
seibelj 7y ago
People used to be paid to pump our gas, operate the elevator, hand you a towel in the bathroom. A few places still pay people to do this but it’s more of a luxury add-on. Machines made it so that anyone can pump gas, hit an elevator button, or wash and dry their own hands after using the toilet. Technology progresses and we don’t need experts to cash our checks anymore. If we want to give make-work jobs to people I would prefer they put on puppet shows and read books to kids and the elderly rather than paperwork nonsense at a grocery store bank. People find new jobs. Losing a job doesn’t mean they are destitute - we have a vibrant jobs market in America. If there are enough people like you who would specifically go to a bank in person because you like talking to people, a bank may do that as a competitive advantage. But it isn’t a necessary thing anymore.
LinuxBender 7y ago
Not to down-play your experience and I empathize, but I would like to see this happen to the DMV. I would love to see 99.99% of DMV functions be a mega-ATM like machine.
- pkaye 7y ago
  In California, the DMV has kiosks to handle basic services. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/fo/fo_sst https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/fo/fo_sst They also partner with some private companies like AAA so members can do some of the basic services in person. I was able to pay my registration and get proof in under a minute at AAA.
  - LinuxBender 7y ago
    Did you know that AAA pays them $10MM/yr to have that access? It is so strange to me. It would be like if I showed up at your house and offered to pay you $25 to mow your lawn. I do use AAA for some services. They are limited in what they can do with the DMV. It is risky for people with my personality to interact with state government workers.
    - pkaye 7y ago
      > Did you know that AAA pays them $10MM/yr to have that access? It is so strange to me. The drivers are the AAA customers and AAA feels they can bring value to their customers by providing this service. Hopefully DMV uses this money to improve their own service times.
patio11 7y ago
It generally surprises people to learn that the number of bank tellers in the US is up, substantially, since the introduction of ATMs. It is also up since 2000. (This information is abundantly available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics or you can Google the obvious keywords if anyone wants to keep me honest.)

by dawg- 7y ago

softwaredoug 7y ago

Honestly if simple banking is handled by automation, isn’t there room for differentiation for more “human” banking that empowers people to understand and use more complex financial instruments?

dawg- 7y ago
I don't know. Maybe. I am just talking about the experience of seeing a person's face every day, looking them in the eye, making small talk, interacting with other customers in the bank. That kind of every day stuff has value. I think we can mourn our losses while also looking forward to the new opportunities created. It doesn't have to be all good or all bad. Anyway, I'm not sure I completely understand your comment. Are human bank tellers impeding people from using "more complex financial instruments"?
- ikeyany 7y ago
  > I am just talking about the experience of seeing a person's face every day, looking them in the eye, making small talk, interacting with other customers in the bank. That kind of every day stuff has value. Yes, but this value is clearly less than the value provided by automated convenience. Isn't this why you don't go to a physical bank at all? It seems like the problem is that the people who are "automated away" should be able to get by somehow, even if that means entering retraining or adding a safety net for those unable to transition somehow. I'm not sure how many viable solutions of substance we'll come us with, considering our day job is programming computers, not crunching intentionally complex economic policy.
antisthenes 7y ago
Yes, that's called investment, financial advising and wealth management.
- softwaredoug 7y ago
  It is - but what you're describing isn't available from experts at "every grocery store" scale

txdv 7y ago

> Maybe all of those tellers went to a coding bootcamp and now make triple their salary designing the ATM machines? Of course, that is where all the unemployed people go.

repolfx 7y ago

They probably didn't go into coding. Some of them will have gone into other customer service roles. It's not like they had to be an expert in banking. A few may have gone on to more general office jobs with titles like, "Marketing Associate" where they make PowerPoint slides all day. Some might be in worse jobs now. But, given low unemployment figures, some might well be in better jobs. Not many people aim to spend their life working as a bank teller anyway.

dawg- 7y ago
>Not many people aim to spend their life working as a bank teller anyway. Very good point. But as low-skill customer service jobs go, it's a great stepping stone for someone who is yet to figure out their career path. What happens when all those stepping stones are automated away and we only have high-level jobs left? I think it doesn't bode well for economic mobility.

dropit_sphere 7y ago

All this effort into designing these big machines, and banks still won't just give me an api...

seibelj 7y ago

People used to be paid to pump our gas, operate the elevator, hand you a towel in the bathroom. A few places still pay people to do this but it’s more of a luxury add-on. Machines made it so that anyone can pump gas, hit an elevator button, or wash and dry their own hands after using the toilet. Technology progresses and we don’t need experts to cash our checks anymore. If we want to give make-work jobs to people I would prefer they put on puppet shows and read books to kids and the elderly rather than paperwork nonsense at a grocery store bank. People find new jobs. Losing a job doesn’t mean they are destitute - we have a vibrant jobs market in America. If there are enough people like you who would specifically go to a bank in person because you like talking to people, a bank may do that as a competitive advantage. But it isn’t a necessary thing anymore.

LinuxBender 7y ago

Not to down-play your experience and I empathize, but I would like to see this happen to the DMV. I would love to see 99.99% of DMV functions be a mega-ATM like machine.

pkaye 7y ago
In California, the DMV has kiosks to handle basic services. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/fo/fo_sst https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/fo/fo_sst They also partner with some private companies like AAA so members can do some of the basic services in person. I was able to pay my registration and get proof in under a minute at AAA.
- LinuxBender 7y ago
  Did you know that AAA pays them $10MM/yr to have that access? It is so strange to me. It would be like if I showed up at your house and offered to pay you $25 to mow your lawn. I do use AAA for some services. They are limited in what they can do with the DMV. It is risky for people with my personality to interact with state government workers.
  - pkaye 7y ago
    > Did you know that AAA pays them $10MM/yr to have that access? It is so strange to me. The drivers are the AAA customers and AAA feels they can bring value to their customers by providing this service. Hopefully DMV uses this money to improve their own service times.

patio11 7y ago

It generally surprises people to learn that the number of bank tellers in the US is up, substantially, since the introduction of ATMs. It is also up since 2000. (This information is abundantly available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics or you can Google the obvious keywords if anyone wants to keep me honest.)