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What? No! Where are you getting your information from? Having worked with a multitude of startups over the years I can say that none of them have behaved in th

by hav 7y ago

What? No! Where are you getting your information from? Having worked with a multitude of startups over the years I can say that none of them have behaved in this way in the Nordics.

bitL 7y ago
Did you get a competitive salary or ~1% of share of the company as an early employee? If not, you were used. The aforementioned is a typical Berlin startup. A favorite of mine is when a company tries to pay you with debt, i.e. instead of being just a developer, you become a banker for your future boss' idea. I wish I were joking...
- ben_w 7y ago
  Last time I was job hunting, one of the Berlin startups was offering €58k (iOS developer). Is that competitive? I find it hard to judge.
  - dgellow 7y ago
    Depends your level, but if you have some experience, no it's not something I would consider competitive (talking about Berlin).
  - superhuzza 7y ago
    No
  - watt 7y ago
    Last time is when? In 2019 the median seems to be 65k-70k, and 70k-75k is possible.
    - jashmatthews 7y ago
      75k at a seed stage companies. Day rates are €1200 and total comp for real senior developers at established companies is €100k+ “Nobody in Berlin earns over €65k” should be a dead meme by now. Salaries are continuing to rise
  - AdrianB1 7y ago
    Not hard at all, there is plenty of information about wages in IT. If you understand the root of the article, the US versus Europe comparison, take Silicon Valley numbers and compare to €58k and you will find it ridiculously low. Damn, you get more in Romania (Bucharest or Cluj), I am not kidding you.
omginternets 7y ago
> I can say that none of them have behaved in this way in the Nordics. The Nordic countries, particularly Sweden and Denmark, are among the few that actually have a pretty healthy startup scene. Maybe there's a link? The parent comment rings true (in essence, despite its touch of hyperbole) with respect to France.
cuddlecake 7y ago
What I see in Germany is that some of the startups are basically contracted by larger companies, tasked to develop complex solutions for a fraction of the price that an established company would require for the same task. At least that's my experience so far.
- mdorazio 7y ago
  I wouldn't really consider those startups since they're not trying to develop their own product for a market segment. Those are more like small development shops (there are a lot of those here in the US as well).

by hav 7y ago

What? No! Where are you getting your information from? Having worked with a multitude of startups over the years I can say that none of them have behaved in this way in the Nordics.

bitL 7y ago

Did you get a competitive salary or ~1% of share of the company as an early employee? If not, you were used. The aforementioned is a typical Berlin startup. A favorite of mine is when a company tries to pay you with debt, i.e. instead of being just a developer, you become a banker for your future boss' idea. I wish I were joking...

ben_w 7y ago
Last time I was job hunting, one of the Berlin startups was offering €58k (iOS developer). Is that competitive? I find it hard to judge.
- dgellow 7y ago
  Depends your level, but if you have some experience, no it's not something I would consider competitive (talking about Berlin).
- superhuzza 7y ago
  No
- watt 7y ago
  Last time is when? In 2019 the median seems to be 65k-70k, and 70k-75k is possible.
  - jashmatthews 7y ago
    75k at a seed stage companies. Day rates are €1200 and total comp for real senior developers at established companies is €100k+ “Nobody in Berlin earns over €65k” should be a dead meme by now. Salaries are continuing to rise
- AdrianB1 7y ago
  Not hard at all, there is plenty of information about wages in IT. If you understand the root of the article, the US versus Europe comparison, take Silicon Valley numbers and compare to €58k and you will find it ridiculously low. Damn, you get more in Romania (Bucharest or Cluj), I am not kidding you.

omginternets 7y ago

> I can say that none of them have behaved in this way in the Nordics. The Nordic countries, particularly Sweden and Denmark, are among the few that actually have a pretty healthy startup scene. Maybe there's a link? The parent comment rings true (in essence, despite its touch of hyperbole) with respect to France.

cuddlecake 7y ago

What I see in Germany is that some of the startups are basically contracted by larger companies, tasked to develop complex solutions for a fraction of the price that an established company would require for the same task. At least that's my experience so far.

mdorazio 7y ago
I wouldn't really consider those startups since they're not trying to develop their own product for a market segment. Those are more like small development shops (there are a lot of those here in the US as well).