6 ms·

Gotta hand it to this place, it's one of the few places I visit where 200-300 dollars is considered penny pinching. The other is the country club.

snagglegaggle 7y ago
Computers at this level are durable goods and ostensibly help you take an income, so it's not too strange.
- tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
  Mass market computers and components being described as a durable good...HN surprises again!
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    Computers are quite durable these days. You can easily run a useful, general-purpose OS on a computer from 10 years ago and perhaps more, even one with baseline specs. If that's not enough to be considered a 'durable good', I don't know what is.
    - creaturemachine 7y ago
      Tell that to my 9 year old iMac with the dead GPU that I can't replace, won't start up, and is going straight into the trash. Never again, Apple.
      - symfoniq 7y ago
        Well, he did say "computers," not "appliances." ;-)
        mindslight 7y ago
        Hey! Don't impugn the serviceability of appliances. When my toaster stopped staying down and heating on one side, I simply opened it up and crimped the broken connection.
      - jamroom 7y ago
        If you can, take it back to Apple - they will recycle it.
      - potta_coffee 7y ago
        Yes, my iMac has been flaking out for a while and only does Netflix now. Terrible design, especially for such an expensive machine.
    - nickjj 7y ago
      Yep. They were quite durable 20 years ago too. It's just back then clock speed and performance was increasing very rapidly and it had a huge effect on the usability of your machine (especially if you were a gamer). You would likely upgrade and retire a working machine for the sake of a drastic performance boost every 3ish years. Nowadays you could happily be using a 5+ year old i5 for full time development and moderate gaming with no issues at all. I'm personally at 5+ years now and I don't see myself upgrading for quite some time because everything I do still feels very snappy. But compare that to something like a Pentium I at 75mhz (1994) vs a Pentium III at 1ghz (1999) and the performance difference was crazy. Over 10x the clock rate, but it's not just a "paper" boost. They are so different in performance that you can't even compare them. They are in leagues of their own.
  - howdydoo 7y ago
    I built a PC seven years ago (i7-3770K). It's lasted through multiple apartments and multiple jobs. I do all my dev work and gaming on it, and it's even able to run Slack. How much longer does something need to last before it's considered durable?
    - Filligree 7y ago
      I have a food processor that my parents bought nearly fifty years ago. They had to replace the motor once, and then I replaced the wiring on the motor coil four years ago, but it's still ticking. Stainless steel, no plastic components. (The buttons used to be plastic. Now they're wood.) That's durable. It also does a much better job than any modern food processor, possibly because the motor is four times the size of what you'd get now.
      - howdydoo 7y ago
        The rate at which technology advances doesn't change whether a good is considered a durable good or not. That term has a specific meaning in economics. There are 50-year-old cars still in service today. I wouldn't drive one, because I want to take advantage of the tech advancements of the past 50 years. But that doesn't mean cars aren't durable goods. And even though computing is barely 50 years old, there are 50-year-old computers in service today. I wouldn't use one, because I want to take advantage of the tech advancements of the past 50 years. But that doesn't mean computers aren't durable goods. This applies even if a 50-year-old car, which predates bluetooth, doesn't have built-in bluetooth. And it applies even if a 50-year-old computer, which predates HTTP, can't load websites.
      - j8014 7y ago
        I wouldn't consider that durable, just repairable. After all, that's like saying an old classic car is durable because it exists and only had its motor replaced once.
        wahern 7y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durable_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durable_good
  - potta_coffee 7y ago
    I'm still running an AMD cpu I bought around 2019 ( I think?) in a tower that is 10 years older than that. The PSU is a year old because I had to replace it. The video card is 2 years old. All that to say, I run my hardware for a long time.
- gruez 7y ago
  Only if you need this much computing power. The typical webdev can probably get away with a quad core AMD/Intel cpu for <$200. Very few people actually need 12+ cores.
  - arvinsim 7y ago
    As a web dev running multiple applications at the same time with memory hogs like Chrome and Slack on a dual core work machine, having more cores do help. It come to the point that I will have to ask my boss to replace my machine since it was so sluggish.
    - llampx 7y ago
      I know companies who are handing out new MacBook Pros and Airs with 8GB of memory. Now that's the falsest economy I've ever seen.
  - OrgNet 7y ago
    very few really need more then 1 core...
    - HelloNurse 7y ago
      It could be argued that some "developers" should be restricted to pencil and paper, but it's a different issue. Even hipsters deserve to multitask at their computer.
      - OrgNet 7y ago
        you can multitask on a 1-core CPU... because the CPUs are much faster then you at switching tasks... that's how it used to be.
    - hajile 7y ago
      JS devs usually need quite a few threads/processes. The editor/IDE is 1 or more processes. Compiling is a separate, multi-threaded process. The webserver is another process. Tests are several more processes (which matters because 30+ minutes on a fast desktop isn't unheard of when running a complete test suite). Parsing the newest compile is multi-threaded in the browser. A separate core for the main website thread is especially important because opening the dev tools de-optimizes all the things resulting in significantly slower performance (a big thing with web apps). If service workers or webworkers are used, then there are even more processes involved. Going from my dual-core Pixelbook to my Ryzen desktop is a huge change in the development experience.
MisterTea 7y ago
When you have $1000 to drop on a CPU I'm quite sure you can also afford a country club membership ;-).
- WhompingWindows 7y ago
  Can you though? I played piano gigs at a country club where the starting family membership cost was $100k per year, which is the lowest tier of membership, the plebeian level.
yummypaint 7y ago
Given the amount of time people on hn spend using their computers, it isnt that surprising. Most people probably spend much less time commuting, but that amount of money is considered reasonable for vehicle maintenence expenses that probably recur more often than people buy a new computer
- tracker1 7y ago
  My last computer I put together about 5+ years ago (i7-4790k, 32gb ram) and did a mid-cycle upgrade a couple years ago (gtx-1080, 1tb nvme, large 4k display). New computer is X570 mb, 64gb, rx5700xt, using an r5-3600 as a placeholder, I am still waiting on a 3950X, and only pulled the trigger early since my last system was acting up. I don't have the specific costs, but have spent around $1500 so far and will probably lose ~$50 on the 3600 when I upgrade and sell it off. Will probably be 4-5 years until I upgrade again, except I may drop a second and/or third nvme drive in or bump the ram to 128gb. The difficulties I've had this time around have been around aesthetics, since I didn't have any experience with aRGB it tool a while to figure out what to get, and even then none of the aRGB supports Linux. The 5700 just got swapped in, and I've had trouble with that and will have to correct over the weekend, may wind up on Windows if it's too much of a pain. I've mostly been working on my work-issued laptop, where I've had separate issues with the battery/charging etc the past month. In the end though, spending a couple grand on a computer every 3-5 years isn't so bad if you're actually doing work on it. I will say, I am surprised how much faster this system actually feels over my old one. Hopefully I can get it stabilized with the new video card soon.

snagglegaggle 7y ago

Computers at this level are durable goods and ostensibly help you take an income, so it's not too strange.

tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
Mass market computers and components being described as a durable good...HN surprises again!
- zozbot234 7y ago
  Computers are quite durable these days. You can easily run a useful, general-purpose OS on a computer from 10 years ago and perhaps more, even one with baseline specs. If that's not enough to be considered a 'durable good', I don't know what is.
  - creaturemachine 7y ago
    Tell that to my 9 year old iMac with the dead GPU that I can't replace, won't start up, and is going straight into the trash. Never again, Apple.
    - symfoniq 7y ago
      Well, he did say "computers," not "appliances." ;-)
      - mindslight 7y ago
        Hey! Don't impugn the serviceability of appliances. When my toaster stopped staying down and heating on one side, I simply opened it up and crimped the broken connection.
    - jamroom 7y ago
      If you can, take it back to Apple - they will recycle it.
    - potta_coffee 7y ago
      Yes, my iMac has been flaking out for a while and only does Netflix now. Terrible design, especially for such an expensive machine.
  - nickjj 7y ago
    Yep. They were quite durable 20 years ago too. It's just back then clock speed and performance was increasing very rapidly and it had a huge effect on the usability of your machine (especially if you were a gamer). You would likely upgrade and retire a working machine for the sake of a drastic performance boost every 3ish years. Nowadays you could happily be using a 5+ year old i5 for full time development and moderate gaming with no issues at all. I'm personally at 5+ years now and I don't see myself upgrading for quite some time because everything I do still feels very snappy. But compare that to something like a Pentium I at 75mhz (1994) vs a Pentium III at 1ghz (1999) and the performance difference was crazy. Over 10x the clock rate, but it's not just a "paper" boost. They are so different in performance that you can't even compare them. They are in leagues of their own.
- howdydoo 7y ago
  I built a PC seven years ago (i7-3770K). It's lasted through multiple apartments and multiple jobs. I do all my dev work and gaming on it, and it's even able to run Slack. How much longer does something need to last before it's considered durable?
  - Filligree 7y ago
    I have a food processor that my parents bought nearly fifty years ago. They had to replace the motor once, and then I replaced the wiring on the motor coil four years ago, but it's still ticking. Stainless steel, no plastic components. (The buttons used to be plastic. Now they're wood.) That's durable. It also does a much better job than any modern food processor, possibly because the motor is four times the size of what you'd get now.
    - howdydoo 7y ago
      The rate at which technology advances doesn't change whether a good is considered a durable good or not. That term has a specific meaning in economics. There are 50-year-old cars still in service today. I wouldn't drive one, because I want to take advantage of the tech advancements of the past 50 years. But that doesn't mean cars aren't durable goods. And even though computing is barely 50 years old, there are 50-year-old computers in service today. I wouldn't use one, because I want to take advantage of the tech advancements of the past 50 years. But that doesn't mean computers aren't durable goods. This applies even if a 50-year-old car, which predates bluetooth, doesn't have built-in bluetooth. And it applies even if a 50-year-old computer, which predates HTTP, can't load websites.
    - j8014 7y ago
      I wouldn't consider that durable, just repairable. After all, that's like saying an old classic car is durable because it exists and only had its motor replaced once.
      - wahern 7y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durable_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durable_good
- potta_coffee 7y ago
  I'm still running an AMD cpu I bought around 2019 ( I think?) in a tower that is 10 years older than that. The PSU is a year old because I had to replace it. The video card is 2 years old. All that to say, I run my hardware for a long time.
gruez 7y ago
Only if you need this much computing power. The typical webdev can probably get away with a quad core AMD/Intel cpu for <$200. Very few people actually need 12+ cores.
- arvinsim 7y ago
  As a web dev running multiple applications at the same time with memory hogs like Chrome and Slack on a dual core work machine, having more cores do help. It come to the point that I will have to ask my boss to replace my machine since it was so sluggish.
  - llampx 7y ago
    I know companies who are handing out new MacBook Pros and Airs with 8GB of memory. Now that's the falsest economy I've ever seen.
- OrgNet 7y ago
  very few really need more then 1 core...
  - HelloNurse 7y ago
    It could be argued that some "developers" should be restricted to pencil and paper, but it's a different issue. Even hipsters deserve to multitask at their computer.
    - OrgNet 7y ago
      you can multitask on a 1-core CPU... because the CPUs are much faster then you at switching tasks... that's how it used to be.
  - hajile 7y ago
    JS devs usually need quite a few threads/processes. The editor/IDE is 1 or more processes. Compiling is a separate, multi-threaded process. The webserver is another process. Tests are several more processes (which matters because 30+ minutes on a fast desktop isn't unheard of when running a complete test suite). Parsing the newest compile is multi-threaded in the browser. A separate core for the main website thread is especially important because opening the dev tools de-optimizes all the things resulting in significantly slower performance (a big thing with web apps). If service workers or webworkers are used, then there are even more processes involved. Going from my dual-core Pixelbook to my Ryzen desktop is a huge change in the development experience.

MisterTea 7y ago

When you have $1000 to drop on a CPU I'm quite sure you can also afford a country club membership ;-).

WhompingWindows 7y ago
Can you though? I played piano gigs at a country club where the starting family membership cost was $100k per year, which is the lowest tier of membership, the plebeian level.

yummypaint 7y ago

Given the amount of time people on hn spend using their computers, it isnt that surprising. Most people probably spend much less time commuting, but that amount of money is considered reasonable for vehicle maintenence expenses that probably recur more often than people buy a new computer

tracker1 7y ago
My last computer I put together about 5+ years ago (i7-4790k, 32gb ram) and did a mid-cycle upgrade a couple years ago (gtx-1080, 1tb nvme, large 4k display). New computer is X570 mb, 64gb, rx5700xt, using an r5-3600 as a placeholder, I am still waiting on a 3950X, and only pulled the trigger early since my last system was acting up. I don't have the specific costs, but have spent around $1500 so far and will probably lose ~$50 on the 3600 when I upgrade and sell it off. Will probably be 4-5 years until I upgrade again, except I may drop a second and/or third nvme drive in or bump the ram to 128gb. The difficulties I've had this time around have been around aesthetics, since I didn't have any experience with aRGB it tool a while to figure out what to get, and even then none of the aRGB supports Linux. The 5700 just got swapped in, and I've had trouble with that and will have to correct over the weekend, may wind up on Windows if it's too much of a pain. I've mostly been working on my work-issued laptop, where I've had separate issues with the battery/charging etc the past month. In the end though, spending a couple grand on a computer every 3-5 years isn't so bad if you're actually doing work on it. I will say, I am surprised how much faster this system actually feels over my old one. Hopefully I can get it stabilized with the new video card soon.