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I recently moved to France, even relatively simple things such as renting an apartment require ridiculous amounts of paperwork compared to the UK. I can't imagi

I recently moved to France, even relatively simple things such as renting an apartment require ridiculous amounts of paperwork compared to the UK. I can't imagine starting a business here.

baud147258 7y ago
I just started renting flat in France and the amount of paper I had to give wasn't particularly bad (id copy, copy of three pay slips and proof of home insurance, which I did in two day over the phone and by internet)
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  Also, these are not legal requirements but requirements of landlords (apart from ID, perhaps), and they tend to be similar in France and the UK. But when it comes to setting up a company France is nightmarish compared to the UK, which has one of the simplest, quickest, and cheapest systems around.
  - baud147258 7y ago
    I was just commenting on the renting a flat part. I've never set a company in France
- _Wintermute 7y ago
  Maybe my experience was worse being young and renting in Paris, but they wanted several things on top of that (birth certificate, passport, job contract, last 3 utility bills).
  - lorenzhs 7y ago
    Your landlord demanded those things to make sure you'd be able to pay, they're not legally required (maybe apart from checking that you're using your real name).
yardie 7y ago
The last time I rented a place in France was 2007 and it didn’t seem that onerous even then. But what I lacked in paperwork I made up for by paying a larger caution. Basically, landlords are reluctant to rent people who may not be able to pay. And it takes years to evict. The more likely you aren’t in that group the less paperwork they’ll need.
raverbashing 7y ago
The UK has an easier company creation process (compared to most countries), which doesn't mean other countries are necessarily bad or that you need to do it all alone. Yes it would be better without the bureaucracy but it doesn't mean it is unsurmountable. Sure, today it's easier to open a company in the country of your choice, but there might be cases where you want or need to open it in a specific country. (Also, life happens. I doubt the work of any startup started only after the paperwork was 100%)
aweb 7y ago
It may be more than what you have to provide abroad (but I would disagree on a few cases, for instance Japan where you need exceptional guarantors like your company, as well as pay a few months of rent that will never be refunded - known as "key money"), but there is a reason for that. As a landlord in France, I can assure you that renters have extreme protections here. They can avoid paying rent for months on end without being evicted. That's why we have to ask for so many documents, to try to reduce as much as possible the risk for us. Furthermore, the documents a landlord can ask a potential renter is limited by law, so there shouldn't be any abuse with that.

I recently moved to France, even relatively simple things such as renting an apartment require ridiculous amounts of paperwork compared to the UK. I can't imagine starting a business here.

baud147258 7y ago

I just started renting flat in France and the amount of paper I had to give wasn't particularly bad (id copy, copy of three pay slips and proof of home insurance, which I did in two day over the phone and by internet)

mytailorisrich 7y ago
Also, these are not legal requirements but requirements of landlords (apart from ID, perhaps), and they tend to be similar in France and the UK. But when it comes to setting up a company France is nightmarish compared to the UK, which has one of the simplest, quickest, and cheapest systems around.
- baud147258 7y ago
  I was just commenting on the renting a flat part. I've never set a company in France
_Wintermute 7y ago
Maybe my experience was worse being young and renting in Paris, but they wanted several things on top of that (birth certificate, passport, job contract, last 3 utility bills).
- lorenzhs 7y ago
  Your landlord demanded those things to make sure you'd be able to pay, they're not legally required (maybe apart from checking that you're using your real name).

yardie 7y ago

The last time I rented a place in France was 2007 and it didn’t seem that onerous even then. But what I lacked in paperwork I made up for by paying a larger caution. Basically, landlords are reluctant to rent people who may not be able to pay. And it takes years to evict. The more likely you aren’t in that group the less paperwork they’ll need.

raverbashing 7y ago

The UK has an easier company creation process (compared to most countries), which doesn't mean other countries are necessarily bad or that you need to do it all alone. Yes it would be better without the bureaucracy but it doesn't mean it is unsurmountable. Sure, today it's easier to open a company in the country of your choice, but there might be cases where you want or need to open it in a specific country. (Also, life happens. I doubt the work of any startup started only after the paperwork was 100%)

aweb 7y ago

It may be more than what you have to provide abroad (but I would disagree on a few cases, for instance Japan where you need exceptional guarantors like your company, as well as pay a few months of rent that will never be refunded - known as "key money"), but there is a reason for that. As a landlord in France, I can assure you that renters have extreme protections here. They can avoid paying rent for months on end without being evicted. That's why we have to ask for so many documents, to try to reduce as much as possible the risk for us. Furthermore, the documents a landlord can ask a potential renter is limited by law, so there shouldn't be any abuse with that.