4 ms·

I would also add that things are just well, easier in the States, at least compared to Germany / Switzerland. The amount of paperwork alone makes it a non-start

I would also add that things are just well, easier in the States, at least compared to Germany / Switzerland. The amount of paperwork alone makes it a non-starter for most.

rusticpenn 7y ago
There is this 1 € GmBH concept, where there is almost no paper work.
- rsto 7y ago
  The 1€ GmBH isn't available in all (most?) European countries. I know that Germany introduced them a couple of years ago. It's great if you live in the country where you register the GmbH, but it can get lots of tax paper work quickly when your country of residence differs from the country where your company is registered.
- AllegedAlec 7y ago
  Which doesn't exist in the Netherlands. As a BV (the Dutch equivalent of a GmBH), you're obligated to have a CEO-equivalent person, which you're by law forced to pay a market-conform salary, or, even if you're not doing this, you are still forced to pay taxes as though you did.
  - vekker 7y ago
    You have other options, like VOF or CV, if you have funding constraints. Here in Belgium there's the "starters-BVBA" which is the equivalent of the 1 euro GmbH. Yes, there's paperwork and some investment involved, but IMHO it's a myth that starting a company in Europe is a huge hassle.
    - AllegedAlec 7y ago
      > You have other options, like VOF or CV, if you have funding constraints. Which isn't a real option; VOFs and CVs do not have the financial and legal separation of you and the company that a BV has.
      - vekker 7y ago
        Do you really need that though? If revenue is not large enough to start a BV? You can still get insurance and separate bank accounts. I did it before with a Dutch partner, we just started a VOF together. Our plan was to turn it into a BV once revenue reached a certain point (it never did, so we didn't... it was a side hustle).
  - himlion 7y ago
    True in general, but as long as you don't have a lot of equity in your BV yet, you don't have to do it. The tax man won't force you to go broke paying yourself a Market-rate salary.
- luckylion 7y ago
  The paperwork is reduced initially (though a GmbH isn't significantly more complicated - it's just a lot more expensive), but it's still treated the same with regards to taxes etc, so the same rules do apply. It's meant to lower the costs of having limited liability for simple circumstances, not so much cut the red tape.
TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
I considered offshoring my business to the US and the bureaucracy involved would be horrific. For comparison, you can set up a business in the UK with a couple of clicks. Beyond that it's a matter of filing a tax return once a year and payroll returns monthly - or annually if you qualify for an exception.
- yardie 7y ago
  I created a Delaware LLC in a few minutes, online, from the deck of a boat in the Med. except for filing taxes there was nothing complicated about it.
_Wintermute 7y ago
I recently moved to France, even relatively simple things such as renting an apartment require ridiculous amounts of paperwork compared to the UK. I can't imagine starting a business here.
- baud147258 7y ago
  I just started renting flat in France and the amount of paper I had to give wasn't particularly bad (id copy, copy of three pay slips and proof of home insurance, which I did in two day over the phone and by internet)
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    Also, these are not legal requirements but requirements of landlords (apart from ID, perhaps), and they tend to be similar in France and the UK. But when it comes to setting up a company France is nightmarish compared to the UK, which has one of the simplest, quickest, and cheapest systems around.
    - baud147258 7y ago
      I was just commenting on the renting a flat part. I've never set a company in France
  - _Wintermute 7y ago
    Maybe my experience was worse being young and renting in Paris, but they wanted several things on top of that (birth certificate, passport, job contract, last 3 utility bills).
    - lorenzhs 7y ago
      Your landlord demanded those things to make sure you'd be able to pay, they're not legally required (maybe apart from checking that you're using your real name).
- yardie 7y ago
maehwasu 7y ago
This was probably true at one time, but the States are utterly brutal from a compliance/reporting perspective now.

I would also add that things are just well, easier in the States, at least compared to Germany / Switzerland. The amount of paperwork alone makes it a non-starter for most.

rusticpenn 7y ago

There is this 1 € GmBH concept, where there is almost no paper work.

rsto 7y ago
The 1€ GmBH isn't available in all (most?) European countries. I know that Germany introduced them a couple of years ago. It's great if you live in the country where you register the GmbH, but it can get lots of tax paper work quickly when your country of residence differs from the country where your company is registered.
AllegedAlec 7y ago
Which doesn't exist in the Netherlands. As a BV (the Dutch equivalent of a GmBH), you're obligated to have a CEO-equivalent person, which you're by law forced to pay a market-conform salary, or, even if you're not doing this, you are still forced to pay taxes as though you did.
- vekker 7y ago
  You have other options, like VOF or CV, if you have funding constraints. Here in Belgium there's the "starters-BVBA" which is the equivalent of the 1 euro GmbH. Yes, there's paperwork and some investment involved, but IMHO it's a myth that starting a company in Europe is a huge hassle.
  - AllegedAlec 7y ago
    > You have other options, like VOF or CV, if you have funding constraints. Which isn't a real option; VOFs and CVs do not have the financial and legal separation of you and the company that a BV has.
    - vekker 7y ago
      Do you really need that though? If revenue is not large enough to start a BV? You can still get insurance and separate bank accounts. I did it before with a Dutch partner, we just started a VOF together. Our plan was to turn it into a BV once revenue reached a certain point (it never did, so we didn't... it was a side hustle).
- himlion 7y ago
  True in general, but as long as you don't have a lot of equity in your BV yet, you don't have to do it. The tax man won't force you to go broke paying yourself a Market-rate salary.
luckylion 7y ago
The paperwork is reduced initially (though a GmbH isn't significantly more complicated - it's just a lot more expensive), but it's still treated the same with regards to taxes etc, so the same rules do apply. It's meant to lower the costs of having limited liability for simple circumstances, not so much cut the red tape.

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago

I considered offshoring my business to the US and the bureaucracy involved would be horrific. For comparison, you can set up a business in the UK with a couple of clicks. Beyond that it's a matter of filing a tax return once a year and payroll returns monthly - or annually if you qualify for an exception.

yardie 7y ago
I created a Delaware LLC in a few minutes, online, from the deck of a boat in the Med. except for filing taxes there was nothing complicated about it.

_Wintermute 7y ago

I recently moved to France, even relatively simple things such as renting an apartment require ridiculous amounts of paperwork compared to the UK. I can't imagine starting a business here.

baud147258 7y ago
I just started renting flat in France and the amount of paper I had to give wasn't particularly bad (id copy, copy of three pay slips and proof of home insurance, which I did in two day over the phone and by internet)
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  Also, these are not legal requirements but requirements of landlords (apart from ID, perhaps), and they tend to be similar in France and the UK. But when it comes to setting up a company France is nightmarish compared to the UK, which has one of the simplest, quickest, and cheapest systems around.
  - baud147258 7y ago
    I was just commenting on the renting a flat part. I've never set a company in France
- _Wintermute 7y ago
  Maybe my experience was worse being young and renting in Paris, but they wanted several things on top of that (birth certificate, passport, job contract, last 3 utility bills).
  - lorenzhs 7y ago
    Your landlord demanded those things to make sure you'd be able to pay, they're not legally required (maybe apart from checking that you're using your real name).
yardie 7y ago

maehwasu 7y ago

This was probably true at one time, but the States are utterly brutal from a compliance/reporting perspective now.