4 ms·

I think the missing piece here is the constant focus on the US. In Europe ISPs are under much stricter rules about data privacy and generally cannot do things

I think the missing piece here is the constant focus on the US. In Europe ISPs are under much stricter rules about data privacy and generally cannot do things like the above. Having worked for several ISPs here I’ve never found them misusing DNS data (although sometimes it was logged for a time for management / troubleshooting.) For a European; with reasonable trust in my ISP, I don’t want Mozilla sending all my queries to a US company which can be forced to reveal that to the US govt, or use it for some other nefarious purpose. FWIW I’ve never used my ISP DNS though have always run my own recursor at home.

b6z 7y ago
I absolutely agree with you. I have more trust into my local European ISP than into Google, Cloudflare and such.
- tptacek 7y ago
  Nobody is asking you to trust Google more than you already do (if you don't run Chrome, this doesn't impact you at all). But the real question is: do you trust your European ISP more than anybody else that might ever run DNS for you? That seems like an extraordinary amount of trust. What DoH allows you to do is trust someone, anyone else to safely run DNS for you, without exposing anything to your ISP. That's a capability you think Europeans shouldn't want?
icebraining 7y ago
Mozilla is only enabling DoH for US users, and Chrome is only enabling DoH if you were already using a DNS provider that also supports it.
kd913 7y ago
Wouldn't the US company resolver be based in the EU though and subject to EU Law? That would have to be the case without the DNS resolver having ridiculously slow DNS query times. I don't think the US govt can ask for data present/originated from the EU.
- Faark 7y ago
  This seems pretty wrong. I seem to suck at googling such topics, with [0] being an okay-ish summary. And from what I understand, this is only law enforcement, thus does not even mention NSLs and such. [0] https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=5649fdce-4345-49ba-b994-5a678b2f7f60 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=5649fdce-4345...

b6z 7y ago

I absolutely agree with you. I have more trust into my local European ISP than into Google, Cloudflare and such.

tptacek 7y ago
Nobody is asking you to trust Google more than you already do (if you don't run Chrome, this doesn't impact you at all). But the real question is: do you trust your European ISP more than anybody else that might ever run DNS for you? That seems like an extraordinary amount of trust. What DoH allows you to do is trust someone, anyone else to safely run DNS for you, without exposing anything to your ISP. That's a capability you think Europeans shouldn't want?

icebraining 7y ago

Mozilla is only enabling DoH for US users, and Chrome is only enabling DoH if you were already using a DNS provider that also supports it.

kd913 7y ago

Wouldn't the US company resolver be based in the EU though and subject to EU Law? That would have to be the case without the DNS resolver having ridiculously slow DNS query times. I don't think the US govt can ask for data present/originated from the EU.

Faark 7y ago
This seems pretty wrong. I seem to suck at googling such topics, with [0] being an okay-ish summary. And from what I understand, this is only law enforcement, thus does not even mention NSLs and such. [0] https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=5649fdce-4345-49ba-b994-5a678b2f7f60 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=5649fdce-4345...