5 ms·

> Having such a unique processor at your disposal, it’s absurd not to build a powerful x64-retro system on it. One of the options for using such a system in gen

> Having such a unique processor at your disposal, it’s absurd not to build a powerful x64-retro system on it. One of the options for using such a system in general can be to build a universal “PC-harvester” that supports all Microsoft operating systems from DOS to Windows 10. I thought all modern intel/amd cpus are backwards compatible back to the 8086, and so capable of doing that?

hapless 7y ago
You would need the firmware to also be backwards compatible. It's presumably easier to find a socket 478 motherboard with ISA slots and very old-style firmware.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  I had to do this. Needed ISA, and a newer OS. Search for 'industrial motherboard' and it gets way easier, but somewhat more expensive.
  - core-questions 7y ago
    Please tell me what you ended up with, I have a waferprober that needs some love.
    - exikyut 7y ago
      What specifically does it need to interface with? An ISA slot? Non-USB-dongle RS232?
      - core-questions 7y ago
        I need three ISA slots for Weird Proprietary 80s Shit, probably parallel+serial as well
        exikyut 7y ago
        Agh, didn't see your reply :( A couple seconds of digging finds motherboards that cost an average of $300. Assuming you (unfortunately) _have_ to support whatever it is you're supporting... - Socket 478 (P4/Celeron), 2GB max, RS422/485, MiniPCI, $???: https://adek.com/product/MB-800V https://adek.com/product/MB-800V - Socket 478, 2GB max, $???: https://www.bressner.co.uk/products/motherboards/mb-g4v620-b-g https://www.bressner.co.uk/products/motherboards/mb-g4v620-b... - Socket 478, 6xUSB2, $???: http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455439/showimage.html http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455439/showimage.h... - Socket 478, 2GB max, CF, 6xUSB2, $???: http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455440-4-pci-3-isa-slot-mainboard-support-intel-pentium4-celeron-socket-478.html http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455440-4-pci-3-isa... - LGA775 (Core 2 Quad), 4GB max, 1xPCIx16, M-SATA, 2xLAN, IrDA, 5xRS232, $320: https://www.ebay.com/itm/283550673178 https://www.ebay.com/itm/283550673178 - LGA775, 6xRS232, 8xUSB2.0, CF, RS422/485, $179: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32892452763.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32892452763.html - LGA775 (Intel G41), 4GB max, DVI, 4xSATA 3G, 2xLAN, 8xRS232, (does not support ISA bus mastering), $???: http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455435/showimage.html http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455435/showimage.h... All of the above have 3xISA, at least one RS232 and at least one LPT.
userbinator 7y ago
Unfortunately not, the biggest change being "pure" UEFI-without-legacy-BIOS firmware that a lot of motherboards already have. That and the question of drivers for OSs newer than DOS (which is not as big of a problem, since they can still be written and doing so is easier than changing the BIOS. The existence of USB drivers for DOS, and HD Audio for Windows 3.1x[1] are examples of that.) Modern x86 CPUs are theoretically still backwards compatible, but I suspect they don't test things like 16-bit mode and VME[2] much anymore. [1] http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?50867-Windows-3-1-drivers-for-newer-hardware http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?50867-Windows-3-1-... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14328237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14328237
- mshook 7y ago
  Intel is supposedly dropping the support to boot in 16 bits mode next year. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/intel-to-kill-off-the-last-vestiges-of-the-ancient-pc-bios-by-2020/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/intel-to-kill-off-th... https://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-were-ending-all-legacy-bios-support-by-2020/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-were-ending-all-legacy-b...
  - userbinator 7y ago
    Those disturbingly happy articles should really be titled something like "the openness of the PC is about to end forever" --- because that was likely the end-goal all along.
    - core-questions 7y ago
      These new machines are not PCs. It's not out of the question for some company to build a new BIOS-architecture machine in the future, though it will probably eventually require sourcing x86 chips from vendors other than the Big Two as crypto keys will probably be required to even boot the chip if they aren't already.

hapless 7y ago

You would need the firmware to also be backwards compatible. It's presumably easier to find a socket 478 motherboard with ISA slots and very old-style firmware.

whenchamenia 7y ago
I had to do this. Needed ISA, and a newer OS. Search for 'industrial motherboard' and it gets way easier, but somewhat more expensive.
- core-questions 7y ago
  Please tell me what you ended up with, I have a waferprober that needs some love.
  - exikyut 7y ago
    What specifically does it need to interface with? An ISA slot? Non-USB-dongle RS232?
    - core-questions 7y ago
      I need three ISA slots for Weird Proprietary 80s Shit, probably parallel+serial as well
      - exikyut 7y ago
        Agh, didn't see your reply :( A couple seconds of digging finds motherboards that cost an average of $300. Assuming you (unfortunately) _have_ to support whatever it is you're supporting... - Socket 478 (P4/Celeron), 2GB max, RS422/485, MiniPCI, $???: https://adek.com/product/MB-800V https://adek.com/product/MB-800V - Socket 478, 2GB max, $???: https://www.bressner.co.uk/products/motherboards/mb-g4v620-b-g https://www.bressner.co.uk/products/motherboards/mb-g4v620-b... - Socket 478, 6xUSB2, $???: http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455439/showimage.html http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455439/showimage.h... - Socket 478, 2GB max, CF, 6xUSB2, $???: http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455440-4-pci-3-isa-slot-mainboard-support-intel-pentium4-celeron-socket-478.html http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455440-4-pci-3-isa... - LGA775 (Core 2 Quad), 4GB max, 1xPCIx16, M-SATA, 2xLAN, IrDA, 5xRS232, $320: https://www.ebay.com/itm/283550673178 https://www.ebay.com/itm/283550673178 - LGA775, 6xRS232, 8xUSB2.0, CF, RS422/485, $179: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32892452763.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32892452763.html - LGA775 (Intel G41), 4GB max, DVI, 4xSATA 3G, 2xLAN, 8xRS232, (does not support ISA bus mastering), $???: http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455435/showimage.html http://vegashine.sell.everychina.com/p-104455435/showimage.h... All of the above have 3xISA, at least one RS232 and at least one LPT.

userbinator 7y ago

Unfortunately not, the biggest change being "pure" UEFI-without-legacy-BIOS firmware that a lot of motherboards already have. That and the question of drivers for OSs newer than DOS (which is not as big of a problem, since they can still be written and doing so is easier than changing the BIOS. The existence of USB drivers for DOS, and HD Audio for Windows 3.1x[1] are examples of that.) Modern x86 CPUs are theoretically still backwards compatible, but I suspect they don't test things like 16-bit mode and VME[2] much anymore. [1] http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?50867-Windows-3-1-drivers-for-newer-hardware http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?50867-Windows-3-1-... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14328237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14328237

mshook 7y ago
Intel is supposedly dropping the support to boot in 16 bits mode next year. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/intel-to-kill-off-the-last-vestiges-of-the-ancient-pc-bios-by-2020/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/intel-to-kill-off-th... https://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-were-ending-all-legacy-bios-support-by-2020/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-were-ending-all-legacy-b...
- userbinator 7y ago
  Those disturbingly happy articles should really be titled something like "the openness of the PC is about to end forever" --- because that was likely the end-goal all along.
  - core-questions 7y ago
    These new machines are not PCs. It's not out of the question for some company to build a new BIOS-architecture machine in the future, though it will probably eventually require sourcing x86 chips from vendors other than the Big Two as crypto keys will probably be required to even boot the chip if they aren't already.