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Interesting. As a dev, anxiety can (edit: sometimes) cause stresses to build up to the point where thinking can be hard. Which is exactly the wrong thing for wh

Interesting. As a dev, anxiety can (edit: sometimes) cause stresses to build up to the point where thinking can be hard. Which is exactly the wrong thing for when you need to tackle complex problems. I've found it's easier to get into the zone late at night when I know no-one else is up and working, and I can just let all that go. It wrecks the next day though, and can easily turn into an evil cycle - even more so now when having a family and there's no opportunity to sleep in to catch up. The last thing you want to do is commit code at 02:00. Better to leave it to when you have a fresher head to review what you did beforehand, both for quality and perception reasons. 2nd EDIT: Having to be always online on Slack with all the @mentions pinging off constantly and/or just working in a busy and loud open office with meetings every few hours can be detrimental to being able to build up that mental model needed to see things clearly when tackling something new / that I'd like to get done in a better way. I'm probably not a fantastic dev, and showing my age, but I try to make up with persistence and enthusiasm for my work / field..

jowiar 7y ago
It took me over 10 years to overcome this. For the longest time, I needed fatigue to kick in to overwhelm the anxiety and enable productivity (albeit at nowhere near my potential).
- sundvor 7y ago
  Thanks, that is a very insightful and a helpful comment. It's happening a lot less for me these days, but have had a recent resurfacing. Physical exercise and mindfulness can be great helpers, and making time for them even when there doesn't seem to be any is paramount.
  - jowiar 7y ago
    FWIW, the resolution for me eventually came when I was able to get a nice feedback loop of breaking off what I thought was a day’s work at the beginning of the day, doing a day’s work, and either succeeding or taking the loss and rescoping for the next day. The sleep deprivation is a cycle from hell, where I can get something done, but it’s at a cost of the next 2 days of productivity, which causes more anxiety...
  - dancek 7y ago
    "I have so much to do that I shall spend the first three hours in prayer." -Martin Luther
    - pdimitar 7y ago
      This made me laugh. So relatable! Sometimes I spend my first 2 hours in bed plus having a very long breakfast with my wife (I work remotely) just so I can mentally prepare for the work ahead.
- Nition 7y ago
  I've always guessed this could be the inspiration for the fictional "Ballmer peak" (alcohol taking the place of fatigue).[1] [1] https://xkcd.com/323 https://xkcd.com/323
  - photonios 7y ago
    Call me crazy, but it's not fiction to me. When I figured out what I am gonna do, a beer or two helps me focus.
    - pdimitar 7y ago
      I drink red wine 1-2 times a month. Most of the time I get the dosage right and I feel like Skynet for 3-4 hours. But I do it rarely, don't want to ever be dependent on alcohol.
photonios 7y ago
Wow, this perfectly describes me. Although, I usually don't have to stay up till 2AM to get that productivity boost. I know it sounds strange, but when it gets dark outside, my productivity is so much better. I don't think it has much to do with the darkness itself. It is probably the fact that when it gets dark, the flood of Slack messages, E-mails and whatnot stops. I am terrified of how I am going to manage this when I have kids. It's just me and my fiance right now. We both work at the same company and we're both very career driven. It's not a problem yet.
- mikhailfranco 7y ago
  When you start a family I strongly recommend this pattern: Always, always, go home for dinner and put the kids to bed, then go back to work. If you can work from home, this is relatively easy. If you have to be at work, it involves an extra commute, which may or may not be possible. If it is not currently possible, I would anyway recommend making your commute shorter, or negligible if possible, because it will make your life so much better. As a personal anecdote, I used to commute to work by bicycle. So I would cycle home for dinner with the family. Then I would drive back to work, which was relatively short (~10mi, 15km). Sometimes, if I worked right through the night, I would drive home at dawn, change clothes, and jump on the bike to go back to work (single car family). Yes, tiring, but I was young at the time - couldn't do that now.
  - photonios 7y ago
    Thanks for the advice! I'll try to remember that when that time comes. Luckily I hate commuting so I will do everything to avoid long commutes. Currently takes me <15minutes to get to the office. You don't happen to live in the Netherlands? It's not often that I see people calling 15km "short".
    - mikhailfranco 7y ago
      No, it was in USA. It was short when driving :) One route was Natick-Weston-Waltham, MA, so quite tough fighting with the snow (and snowplows) in the winter. Another was MillValley-Sausalito-SF, including the time the Golden Gate was closed to bikes after 9/11. So all Marin cyclists had to cross the bridge on a free shuttle bus, which towed a bike rack trailer. Not so young any more, but recently changed job, and started a 15 km bike commute again ...
josephg 7y ago
Re: slack, I've started getting in the habit of setting my computer and phone to "do not disturb" mode when I'm actually in the thick of things. Notifications are poison for flow - and even if I don't look at my phone just hearing it vibrate and knowing there's a message there is distracting. (On macos you can suspend notifications system-wide in the drawer thing on the right of the screen. Pull it out with a gesture and scroll up to find no not disturb mode and night shift). I think its not a reasonable expectation for productive programmers to be always available for random questions and conversation. Make the messages and notifications wait until you have downtime.
- dawnerd 7y ago
  That's been a huge booster for me as well. I have a few friends that like to blow my notifications up and they don't quite get the hint when I'm busy. Between muting them and DnD mode it's been a godsend. Also helpful has been making sure my slack goes into do not disturb at the same time every day. One problem with system wide muting is since we're a fully remote team if something is breaking I have to be available. Maybe it's possible, but I'd love a way to enable do not disturb except for a single app.
  - jbverschoor 7y ago
    Why do you need to be available? Are you managing uptime, infra and ops? People who want you to be available all the time are most likely the ones who waste time the most
    - dawnerd 7y ago
      We're a very small team so yeah I end up doing ops. I'd be nice to have a dedicated ops team but we're really far from that (and thankfully our setup has been pretty stable recently).
- distances 7y ago
  I'm wondering why people install Slack on their phones at all. If you have monitoring duty it may make sense, but for development? Typing on a keyboard is a million times more convenient, and I've been fine by catching up with chat at the office in the morning. On the same note, I don't do mobile email either. Colleagues can call me if the shit really hits the fan. Nobody ever does though, which I think speaks for itself.
scarejunba 7y ago
It also helps that Reddit and HN don't move at night so my distractions ebb.
- Kiro 7y ago
  What do you mean? Both sites are international.
  - flukus 7y ago
    HN has quiet times, starting from about now and going for the next couple of hours, it's particularly pronounced on (local)Mondays because it's still Sunday in America. Annoying for me as this is the end of workday unproductive time. Reddit can be similar depending on the sub.
parasubvert 7y ago
I have a very similar approach to things. I found regular (but not daily - maybe 3 times a week) pair programming and test-driven development was bitter medicine for my anxiety. Pairing at first can lead to high anxiety in an introvert, but like exercise for someone out of shape, I've found built up confidence in my abilities (and also kills overconfidence which is another affliction). A unique kind of flow can be achieved with your pair, one that isn't quite as productive as 2 a.m. "in the zone" flow, but is also much easier to slip into with regularity. Nowadays I find in general my solo work just requires freedom from distraction (shutting Slack notifications off), the anxiety builds more slowly.
jacobsenscott 7y ago
I'm working right now at midnight because it is a "distraction free" time. It is silly. I should be able to make my own "distraction free" time during the work day just by turning off all notifications. Idk why I don't.
- majewsky 7y ago
  Because it's not socially acceptable in most offices.
onion2k 7y ago
Working at 2am solves the problem of interruptions in completely the wrong way. Wouldn't a far better solution to the problem of interruptions be to engineer a situation where your coworkers know when you want to be left alone and respect that enough not to interrupt you during that time, and to put processes in place for them to deal with issues without you? If that seems impossible then you have a different problem to solve first - which is "why can't I work optimally?"
- xkcd-sucks 7y ago
  Managing an intelligent, adaptive adversary seems more Art than Engineering

jowiar 7y ago

It took me over 10 years to overcome this. For the longest time, I needed fatigue to kick in to overwhelm the anxiety and enable productivity (albeit at nowhere near my potential).

sundvor 7y ago
Thanks, that is a very insightful and a helpful comment. It's happening a lot less for me these days, but have had a recent resurfacing. Physical exercise and mindfulness can be great helpers, and making time for them even when there doesn't seem to be any is paramount.
- jowiar 7y ago
  FWIW, the resolution for me eventually came when I was able to get a nice feedback loop of breaking off what I thought was a day’s work at the beginning of the day, doing a day’s work, and either succeeding or taking the loss and rescoping for the next day. The sleep deprivation is a cycle from hell, where I can get something done, but it’s at a cost of the next 2 days of productivity, which causes more anxiety...
- dancek 7y ago
  "I have so much to do that I shall spend the first three hours in prayer." -Martin Luther
  - pdimitar 7y ago
    This made me laugh. So relatable! Sometimes I spend my first 2 hours in bed plus having a very long breakfast with my wife (I work remotely) just so I can mentally prepare for the work ahead.
Nition 7y ago
I've always guessed this could be the inspiration for the fictional "Ballmer peak" (alcohol taking the place of fatigue).[1] [1] https://xkcd.com/323 https://xkcd.com/323
- photonios 7y ago
  Call me crazy, but it's not fiction to me. When I figured out what I am gonna do, a beer or two helps me focus.
  - pdimitar 7y ago
    I drink red wine 1-2 times a month. Most of the time I get the dosage right and I feel like Skynet for 3-4 hours. But I do it rarely, don't want to ever be dependent on alcohol.

photonios 7y ago

Wow, this perfectly describes me. Although, I usually don't have to stay up till 2AM to get that productivity boost. I know it sounds strange, but when it gets dark outside, my productivity is so much better. I don't think it has much to do with the darkness itself. It is probably the fact that when it gets dark, the flood of Slack messages, E-mails and whatnot stops. I am terrified of how I am going to manage this when I have kids. It's just me and my fiance right now. We both work at the same company and we're both very career driven. It's not a problem yet.

mikhailfranco 7y ago
When you start a family I strongly recommend this pattern: Always, always, go home for dinner and put the kids to bed, then go back to work. If you can work from home, this is relatively easy. If you have to be at work, it involves an extra commute, which may or may not be possible. If it is not currently possible, I would anyway recommend making your commute shorter, or negligible if possible, because it will make your life so much better. As a personal anecdote, I used to commute to work by bicycle. So I would cycle home for dinner with the family. Then I would drive back to work, which was relatively short (~10mi, 15km). Sometimes, if I worked right through the night, I would drive home at dawn, change clothes, and jump on the bike to go back to work (single car family). Yes, tiring, but I was young at the time - couldn't do that now.
- photonios 7y ago
  Thanks for the advice! I'll try to remember that when that time comes. Luckily I hate commuting so I will do everything to avoid long commutes. Currently takes me <15minutes to get to the office. You don't happen to live in the Netherlands? It's not often that I see people calling 15km "short".
  - mikhailfranco 7y ago
    No, it was in USA. It was short when driving :) One route was Natick-Weston-Waltham, MA, so quite tough fighting with the snow (and snowplows) in the winter. Another was MillValley-Sausalito-SF, including the time the Golden Gate was closed to bikes after 9/11. So all Marin cyclists had to cross the bridge on a free shuttle bus, which towed a bike rack trailer. Not so young any more, but recently changed job, and started a 15 km bike commute again ...

josephg 7y ago

Re: slack, I've started getting in the habit of setting my computer and phone to "do not disturb" mode when I'm actually in the thick of things. Notifications are poison for flow - and even if I don't look at my phone just hearing it vibrate and knowing there's a message there is distracting. (On macos you can suspend notifications system-wide in the drawer thing on the right of the screen. Pull it out with a gesture and scroll up to find no not disturb mode and night shift). I think its not a reasonable expectation for productive programmers to be always available for random questions and conversation. Make the messages and notifications wait until you have downtime.

dawnerd 7y ago
That's been a huge booster for me as well. I have a few friends that like to blow my notifications up and they don't quite get the hint when I'm busy. Between muting them and DnD mode it's been a godsend. Also helpful has been making sure my slack goes into do not disturb at the same time every day. One problem with system wide muting is since we're a fully remote team if something is breaking I have to be available. Maybe it's possible, but I'd love a way to enable do not disturb except for a single app.
- jbverschoor 7y ago
  Why do you need to be available? Are you managing uptime, infra and ops? People who want you to be available all the time are most likely the ones who waste time the most
  - dawnerd 7y ago
    We're a very small team so yeah I end up doing ops. I'd be nice to have a dedicated ops team but we're really far from that (and thankfully our setup has been pretty stable recently).
distances 7y ago
I'm wondering why people install Slack on their phones at all. If you have monitoring duty it may make sense, but for development? Typing on a keyboard is a million times more convenient, and I've been fine by catching up with chat at the office in the morning. On the same note, I don't do mobile email either. Colleagues can call me if the shit really hits the fan. Nobody ever does though, which I think speaks for itself.

scarejunba 7y ago

It also helps that Reddit and HN don't move at night so my distractions ebb.

Kiro 7y ago
What do you mean? Both sites are international.
- flukus 7y ago
  HN has quiet times, starting from about now and going for the next couple of hours, it's particularly pronounced on (local)Mondays because it's still Sunday in America. Annoying for me as this is the end of workday unproductive time. Reddit can be similar depending on the sub.

parasubvert 7y ago

I have a very similar approach to things. I found regular (but not daily - maybe 3 times a week) pair programming and test-driven development was bitter medicine for my anxiety. Pairing at first can lead to high anxiety in an introvert, but like exercise for someone out of shape, I've found built up confidence in my abilities (and also kills overconfidence which is another affliction). A unique kind of flow can be achieved with your pair, one that isn't quite as productive as 2 a.m. "in the zone" flow, but is also much easier to slip into with regularity. Nowadays I find in general my solo work just requires freedom from distraction (shutting Slack notifications off), the anxiety builds more slowly.

jacobsenscott 7y ago

I'm working right now at midnight because it is a "distraction free" time. It is silly. I should be able to make my own "distraction free" time during the work day just by turning off all notifications. Idk why I don't.

majewsky 7y ago
Because it's not socially acceptable in most offices.

onion2k 7y ago

Working at 2am solves the problem of interruptions in completely the wrong way. Wouldn't a far better solution to the problem of interruptions be to engineer a situation where your coworkers know when you want to be left alone and respect that enough not to interrupt you during that time, and to put processes in place for them to deal with issues without you? If that seems impossible then you have a different problem to solve first - which is "why can't I work optimally?"

xkcd-sucks 7y ago
Managing an intelligent, adaptive adversary seems more Art than Engineering