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> the independent judiciary which the CCP is trying the dismantle now with the extradition bill That narrative is never supported by the facts, and the extradi

> the independent judiciary which the CCP is trying the dismantle now with the extradition bill That narrative is never supported by the facts, and the extradition treaty has been withdrawn. You keep saying it does not make it true. > the British also made large scale election reforms After the signing of the Sino-British Joint Declaration. It's like agreeing to sell your company, then doubling the salary of every employee before handing over the company to the new owner. It's reckless, irresponsible, but sadly, very effective. Like I said, a ploy you'd willing fall for, even though you know it's a ploy. > We've waited quite a while now in Sweden for the release of our countryman, the CCP can lend some faith to their insistince that they support "one country, two systems" by releasing him. While I agree the CCP crossed the line in the case of Mr. Gui, and I sincerely hope for his release as much as you do, it by no means indicate the unraveling of one country, two systems. Just like the exile of Edward Snowden by no means indicate the unraveling of freedom of speech in the US.

pimmen 7y ago
> That narrative is never supported by the facts, and the extradition treaty has been withdrawn. You keep saying it does not make it true. It’s still not withdrawn, Ms. Lam has only promised she will. But the bill is still in second reading. > After the signing of the Sino-British Joint Declaration. It's like agreeing to sell your company, then doubling the salary of every employee before handing over the company to the new owner. It's reckless, irresponsible, but sadly, very effective. These are not employees of the CCP who’s freedom is draining China’s budget, these are people who’s freedom and independent judiciary made them an attractive spot for foreign investment in the first place. The only thing the expansion of voting rights cost the CCP was a more expensive process to influence and pressure Hong Kong. With democracy, such a pointless bill as the extradition bill would not have been proposed in the first place, and the threat of losing re-election would have made the LegCo fully withdraw the bill immediately instead of after months of protest. And, a democracy has checks and balances to investigate police departments for excessive violence and corruption, another thing that the people of Hong Kong lost when the CCP rolled back the amendments that restricted police power. > Just like the exile of Edward Snowden by no means indicate the unraveling of freedom of speech in the US. I can publish a full page ad in every US newspaper calling for the US to drop all charges against Snowden and have absolutely no repercussions from the US government. I can’t do that in China calling for the release of Gui. That’s the main reason the case of Edward Snowden is not unravelling free speech in the US, or the west. I work for Bonnier, one of the largest publishers in the Nordics, and the Hong Kong government took out a full page ad in our largest newspaper, Dagens Nyheter, where they argued that Western governments should keep out of Hong Kong’s business. The editor in chief, Peter Wolodarski, explained why we did it like this; ”We gave the Chinese regime the opportunity to present their case in one of the most prestigious newspapers in the country. An opportunity they deny their own citizens. Because that’s how much we value free speech in Sweden, and that’s how little the CCP values free speech.”
- UIZealot 7y ago
  > It’s still not withdrawn, Ms. Lam has only promised she will. But the bill is still in second reading. The chief executive publicly announced the withdrawal of the bill. It's as good as done, technicalities notwithstanding. > these are people who’s freedom and independent judiciary made them an attractive spot for foreign investment in the first place. What's your point? They had been that attractive spot for foreign investment before the expansion of rights. > With democracy, You seem to think democracy is this panacea that heals all ills. I have a magical bridge in Brooklyn you will surely be interested in. > such a pointless bill as the extradition bill The bill was proposed as a direct response to someone committing a crime in Taiwan and fleeing to Hong Kong. See the point there? > And, a democracy has checks and balances to investigate police departments for excessive violence and corruption, I admit that Hong Kong is not a full democracy, but Hong Kong already has all these things, and they work remarkable well, in fact much better than in most countries one might consider full democracies. Again, one would have to be really blinded by ideology to not see that. > I can publish a full page ad in every US newspaper calling for the US to drop all charges against Snowden and have absolutely no repercussions from the US government. I can’t do that in China calling for the release of Gui. But you can do that in Hong Kong. There you have it, one country, two systems, it's alive and well.

pimmen 7y ago

> That narrative is never supported by the facts, and the extradition treaty has been withdrawn. You keep saying it does not make it true. It’s still not withdrawn, Ms. Lam has only promised she will. But the bill is still in second reading. > After the signing of the Sino-British Joint Declaration. It's like agreeing to sell your company, then doubling the salary of every employee before handing over the company to the new owner. It's reckless, irresponsible, but sadly, very effective. These are not employees of the CCP who’s freedom is draining China’s budget, these are people who’s freedom and independent judiciary made them an attractive spot for foreign investment in the first place. The only thing the expansion of voting rights cost the CCP was a more expensive process to influence and pressure Hong Kong. With democracy, such a pointless bill as the extradition bill would not have been proposed in the first place, and the threat of losing re-election would have made the LegCo fully withdraw the bill immediately instead of after months of protest. And, a democracy has checks and balances to investigate police departments for excessive violence and corruption, another thing that the people of Hong Kong lost when the CCP rolled back the amendments that restricted police power. > Just like the exile of Edward Snowden by no means indicate the unraveling of freedom of speech in the US. I can publish a full page ad in every US newspaper calling for the US to drop all charges against Snowden and have absolutely no repercussions from the US government. I can’t do that in China calling for the release of Gui. That’s the main reason the case of Edward Snowden is not unravelling free speech in the US, or the west. I work for Bonnier, one of the largest publishers in the Nordics, and the Hong Kong government took out a full page ad in our largest newspaper, Dagens Nyheter, where they argued that Western governments should keep out of Hong Kong’s business. The editor in chief, Peter Wolodarski, explained why we did it like this; ”We gave the Chinese regime the opportunity to present their case in one of the most prestigious newspapers in the country. An opportunity they deny their own citizens. Because that’s how much we value free speech in Sweden, and that’s how little the CCP values free speech.”

UIZealot 7y ago
> It’s still not withdrawn, Ms. Lam has only promised she will. But the bill is still in second reading. The chief executive publicly announced the withdrawal of the bill. It's as good as done, technicalities notwithstanding. > these are people who’s freedom and independent judiciary made them an attractive spot for foreign investment in the first place. What's your point? They had been that attractive spot for foreign investment before the expansion of rights. > With democracy, You seem to think democracy is this panacea that heals all ills. I have a magical bridge in Brooklyn you will surely be interested in. > such a pointless bill as the extradition bill The bill was proposed as a direct response to someone committing a crime in Taiwan and fleeing to Hong Kong. See the point there? > And, a democracy has checks and balances to investigate police departments for excessive violence and corruption, I admit that Hong Kong is not a full democracy, but Hong Kong already has all these things, and they work remarkable well, in fact much better than in most countries one might consider full democracies. Again, one would have to be really blinded by ideology to not see that. > I can publish a full page ad in every US newspaper calling for the US to drop all charges against Snowden and have absolutely no repercussions from the US government. I can’t do that in China calling for the release of Gui. But you can do that in Hong Kong. There you have it, one country, two systems, it's alive and well.