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Do you think the kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in eastern Kentucky? Because the current policies treat white kids

by JPKab 7y ago

Do you think the kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in eastern Kentucky? Because the current policies treat white kids from trailer parks like white kids from fancy suburbs. And they treat FOB Asians like they are doctor's children. And black kids from fancy suburbs are treated as if they came from poor ghettos. The idea that "oppression" is limited to dimensions of race and gender, rather than ethnic/economic/geographic/etc is as juvenile as it is political useful. You have had up close experience with one kind of disadvantaged community, and act as if that is the only group that has it. The difference between urban communities and places like Clay County, Kentucky is that volunteers like you won't ever get sent to Kentucky.

richmunk567 7y ago
>they treat FOB Asians like they are doctor's children Diversity measures not withstanding, universities try to admit the students most likely to go on to have the most success in adult life and for Asians adolescent academic performance is a worse predictor of this than for Europeans. https://www.unz.com/article/why-harvard-is-right-to-discriminate-against-asians/ https://www.unz.com/article/why-harvard-is-right-to-discrimi...
- shard972 7y ago
  Um, are you claiming that asians are biologically smarter than all other races? How... Racist?
- tamizhar 7y ago
  > Asians adolescent academic performance is a worse predictor of this than for Europeans. Why do you think this is the case?
shadowgovt 7y ago
> Do you think the kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in eastern Kentucky? Your line of reasoning did a dodge there, swapping out between geographic demographics and racial demographics. I don't think all kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in Eastern Kentucky. I do think that all the white-looking kids in eastern Kentucky, regardless of other factors stacked against them, will never be denied a job, loan, or rental opportunity based on the color of their skin. I can't say the same for the kids from any of those regions who don't look white.
- nilkn 7y ago
  It’s almost 2020, not 1940. We have major cities that are majority nonwhite. We have entire statewide school districts that are mostly nonwhite. We have huge metropolitan areas that are mostly nonwhite. You can walk into an expensive luxury apartment complex in an immigrant heavy city and find tons of nonwhite people.
  - widowlark 7y ago
    And yet the data still shows widespread economic disparity due to discrimination
    - webgoat 7y ago
      The data also shows widespread economic disparity due to geography, yet Harvard doesn't give the poor kids an extra 200 points on their SAT. If Harvard actually cared about this issue they would create additional scholarship programs that review people on a case-by-case basis rather than a blanket policy.
      - mlevental 7y ago
        geography isn't a protected class. it's not a class at all. it's a set of circumstances. your skin color and the privileges or liabilities incurred are inescapable.
        thaumasiotes 7y ago
        > geography isn't a protected class Frequently it is. Many laws specifically protect "national origin".
        shadowgovt 7y ago
        Kentucky isn't a "national origin."
fromky 7y ago
This is actually factually incorrect. White kids from different economic backgrounds are treated identically != race-conscious admissions policies as they are currently described in the ruling. And FOB Asians is not an economic class, so I am not sure what argument you are trying to make. Is FOB Asian supposed to be poor? Because you need them to visit some places like Vancouver and Waterloo. I think your point that oppression is not only racial but socioeconomic is not misguided. But as I understand it, the ruling does not preclude adjustments based on the access and opportunity limitations you refer to, which are not strictly limited to a particular race.
throwaway_law 7y ago
>Do you think the kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in eastern Kentucky? You have to distinguish affirmative action (in hiring/employment) and race based factors in college admissions. Most colleges that use race/minority status as a factor in admissions also generally also use socioeconomic status as a factor. However, I am not familiar with any employment/hiring based affirmative action that looks at socioeconomic status. Just as an example, I went to a top 50 (at the time) public high school in the country, the school is located in a large city (hint: where Jeff Bezos went). I had a 4.0 GPA and was the 50th percentile of the class, approximately #750 out of 1500 kids in my class. Colleges take that into account and I would never have made it to an ivy league (I did get 1 offer, but because I was an athlete and they wanted me to compete for them), but all things being equal if I came from that poor rural area you reference I would be looked at like a scholar, maybe even #1 in the graduating class vs #750, and I might have had multiple Ivy league admissions.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  > I would never have made it to an ivy league (I did get 1 offer

by JPKab 7y ago

richmunk567 7y ago

>they treat FOB Asians like they are doctor's children Diversity measures not withstanding, universities try to admit the students most likely to go on to have the most success in adult life and for Asians adolescent academic performance is a worse predictor of this than for Europeans. https://www.unz.com/article/why-harvard-is-right-to-discriminate-against-asians/ https://www.unz.com/article/why-harvard-is-right-to-discrimi...

shard972 7y ago
Um, are you claiming that asians are biologically smarter than all other races? How... Racist?
tamizhar 7y ago
> Asians adolescent academic performance is a worse predictor of this than for Europeans. Why do you think this is the case?

shadowgovt 7y ago

> Do you think the kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in eastern Kentucky? Your line of reasoning did a dodge there, swapping out between geographic demographics and racial demographics. I don't think all kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in Eastern Kentucky. I do think that all the white-looking kids in eastern Kentucky, regardless of other factors stacked against them, will never be denied a job, loan, or rental opportunity based on the color of their skin. I can't say the same for the kids from any of those regions who don't look white.

nilkn 7y ago
It’s almost 2020, not 1940. We have major cities that are majority nonwhite. We have entire statewide school districts that are mostly nonwhite. We have huge metropolitan areas that are mostly nonwhite. You can walk into an expensive luxury apartment complex in an immigrant heavy city and find tons of nonwhite people.
- widowlark 7y ago
  And yet the data still shows widespread economic disparity due to discrimination
  - webgoat 7y ago
    The data also shows widespread economic disparity due to geography, yet Harvard doesn't give the poor kids an extra 200 points on their SAT. If Harvard actually cared about this issue they would create additional scholarship programs that review people on a case-by-case basis rather than a blanket policy.
    - mlevental 7y ago
      geography isn't a protected class. it's not a class at all. it's a set of circumstances. your skin color and the privileges or liabilities incurred are inescapable.
      - thaumasiotes 7y ago
        > geography isn't a protected class Frequently it is. Many laws specifically protect "national origin".
        shadowgovt 7y ago
        Kentucky isn't a "national origin."

fromky 7y ago

This is actually factually incorrect. White kids from different economic backgrounds are treated identically != race-conscious admissions policies as they are currently described in the ruling. And FOB Asians is not an economic class, so I am not sure what argument you are trying to make. Is FOB Asian supposed to be poor? Because you need them to visit some places like Vancouver and Waterloo. I think your point that oppression is not only racial but socioeconomic is not misguided. But as I understand it, the ruling does not preclude adjustments based on the access and opportunity limitations you refer to, which are not strictly limited to a particular race.

throwaway_law 7y ago

>Do you think the kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in eastern Kentucky? You have to distinguish affirmative action (in hiring/employment) and race based factors in college admissions. Most colleges that use race/minority status as a factor in admissions also generally also use socioeconomic status as a factor. However, I am not familiar with any employment/hiring based affirmative action that looks at socioeconomic status. Just as an example, I went to a top 50 (at the time) public high school in the country, the school is located in a large city (hint: where Jeff Bezos went). I had a 4.0 GPA and was the 50th percentile of the class, approximately #750 out of 1500 kids in my class. Colleges take that into account and I would never have made it to an ivy league (I did get 1 offer, but because I was an athlete and they wanted me to compete for them), but all things being equal if I came from that poor rural area you reference I would be looked at like a scholar, maybe even #1 in the graduating class vs #750, and I might have had multiple Ivy league admissions.

thaumasiotes 7y ago
> I would never have made it to an ivy league (I did get 1 offer