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It's not about weeding anyone out. Or at least not trying to. An Engineering degree that really teaches stuff will be difficult. And some students will find i

It's not about weeding anyone out. Or at least not trying to. An Engineering degree that really teaches stuff will be difficult. And some students will find it is not for them and leave. Preferably early before they have invested too much in it.

topkai22 7y ago
There are some serious problems with the pathways to engineering majors though. I don't know if it is still the case, but I remember my state school expected calculus pre-calculus in high school as the norm for engineering majors. To get to that level of mathematics in high school you had to progress from to Alegbra II to FST, to pre-calc or calculus, but you were only required by the school system to take up through Alegbra II, which a lot of students got to in 9th grade. That means that you had to decide to be an engineer at age 14 and keep taking math. The reason why students exit engineering programs isn't just the material- it can be a terrible teacher (hello physics professor with a thick accent that would insult their students for being stupid), the culture, or being underprepared for the material with no clear path forward to becoming prepared.
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  > To get to that level of mathematics in high school you had to progress from to Alegbra II to FST, to pre-calc or calculus, but you were only required by the school system to take up through Alegbra II What's FST? In my district, students were required to go through Algebra II and Geometry. We were also required to take three years of math. As a result, kids who took Algebra I in middle School went Algebra II->Geometry->Precal, while those who didn't went Algebra I-> Algebra II->Geometry. One group had the requirements by default, and the other didn't need to decide until senior year.
  - topkai22 7y ago
    FST was functions statistics and trig. Might not be a thing anymore. We required 3 years of high school math, but if you did algebra in 7th grade it counted toward the requirement. A lot of higher tracked kids were done with thier math requirement by the end of 9th grade as a result.
    - vonmoltke 7y ago
      Oh, in my district (at the time) you had to take three math classes in high school, regardless of what level you were at.

topkai22 7y ago

There are some serious problems with the pathways to engineering majors though. I don't know if it is still the case, but I remember my state school expected calculus pre-calculus in high school as the norm for engineering majors. To get to that level of mathematics in high school you had to progress from to Alegbra II to FST, to pre-calc or calculus, but you were only required by the school system to take up through Alegbra II, which a lot of students got to in 9th grade. That means that you had to decide to be an engineer at age 14 and keep taking math. The reason why students exit engineering programs isn't just the material- it can be a terrible teacher (hello physics professor with a thick accent that would insult their students for being stupid), the culture, or being underprepared for the material with no clear path forward to becoming prepared.

vonmoltke 7y ago
> To get to that level of mathematics in high school you had to progress from to Alegbra II to FST, to pre-calc or calculus, but you were only required by the school system to take up through Alegbra II What's FST? In my district, students were required to go through Algebra II and Geometry. We were also required to take three years of math. As a result, kids who took Algebra I in middle School went Algebra II->Geometry->Precal, while those who didn't went Algebra I-> Algebra II->Geometry. One group had the requirements by default, and the other didn't need to decide until senior year.
- topkai22 7y ago
  FST was functions statistics and trig. Might not be a thing anymore. We required 3 years of high school math, but if you did algebra in 7th grade it counted toward the requirement. A lot of higher tracked kids were done with thier math requirement by the end of 9th grade as a result.
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    Oh, in my district (at the time) you had to take three math classes in high school, regardless of what level you were at.