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A Jewish Woman’s Appeal of Murder in Thirteenth-Century England
- eccbits 7y agoPuts the UK Labor Party today into perspective - England’s attitude towards the Jews didn’t start as “anti-Zionism”.
- DSingularity 7y agoHow did you reach that conclusion? This was about racism in the thirteenth century. I would love to read more about these links. What is your purpose into bringing the Labour party into this discussion? Seems like you are trying to paint the Labour party as anti-semitic. Is it because of foreign-policy positions with respect to Israel?
- isostatic 7y agoProbably because some Labour MPs have left due to antisemetism, and many high-profile members are on the receiving end. Antisemetism is a popular view in the west, and globally.
- bsaul 7y agoActually the introduction of the article was about a little more than that. More like a « history of anti-semitism in england ». Which resonates for anyone that has been following the recent stories about current’s labour party indeed.
- adwww 7y agoThe Labour party have been embroiled in anti semitism controversy for the last few years. It largely stems from their leader's former links to Hamas and Palestinian movements, and then the party's cack-handed response to the controversy. Eg. Being very slow to discipline known antisemites within the party, watering down the Working Definition of Antisemitism, senior figures being members of Facebook groups containing antisemtic content, etc.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- aphextim 7y agoI could have swore I saw this story float around a few days ago. I searched to see if it was in fact a re-post. I did a search of the url https://legalhistorymiscellany.com/2018/08/17/a-jewish-womans-appeal-of-murder-in-thirteenth-century-england/ https://legalhistorymiscellany.com/2018/08/17/a-jewish-woman... into the hackers news search and got this: https://i.imgur.com/XyoqA83.png https://i.imgur.com/XyoqA83.png I clicked on the 1 comment on the article from two days ago and it now says it was posted 2 hours ago and shows the comment from a few minutes ago. https://i.imgur.com/Knfp1be.png https://i.imgur.com/Knfp1be.png Is this normal for re-posts on HN? First time I've seen the date something was posted change upon clicking the comments, however I'm pretty new to this space so it may be a glitch in the matrix that is known.
- aphextim 7y agoSlight follow up, if you click on the person who posted this article it states they posted it 1 day ago. Which is it, 2 days, 1 day or 2 hours? #confused https://i.imgur.com/hxvgh3l.png https://i.imgur.com/hxvgh3l.png
- maxerickson 7y agoThe mods reset the timer on stories they like to give them another chance at wider attention/discussion.
- aphextim 7y ago10-4, thanks for the clarification.
- julienreszka 7y agoYou call them mods, I call them shills
- maxerickson 7y agoLife is dangerous out there on the hard edge.
- webwielder2 7y agoRacism is one of the most profoundly transformational forces in human history, and yet it is entirely contrived, arbitrary, and voluntary.
- webwielder2 7y agoSame goes for religion, I guess. Often hard to separate the two, though.
- daenz 7y agoIt's a Prisoner's Dilemma[0] situation. Even if one arbitrary group is inclined to behave in a unbiased way, they know that they stand a lot to lose if the other groups take advantage of the situation. The other groups knows this as well. It takes a lot of trust on all sides for the "prisoners" to cooperate and be better off for it. The group with the weakest cohesion loses, unless they all weaken at the same time. And too many interests benefit from keeping everyone tribal and mistrusting. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma
- deogeo 7y agoAs for why it is a prisoner's dilemma, this paper explains it: http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/16/3/7.html http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/16/3/7.html Simply put, cooperation/helpfulness puts you at a disadvantage if it is not reciprocated.
- dfxm12 7y agoSimply put, groups that preferentially collaborate among themselves are at an advantage The error here is assuming that "groups" necessarily fall along racial lines.
- maxerickson 7y agoYour explanation begs the question. Racism is at its core, based in the idea that superficial characteristics somehow convey deeper information. Your explanation assumes that this is true, that superficial characteristics correctly signal group affiliation, something that is simply not true.
- jedberg 7y agoThere’s a reason that the premise of every one of our Jewish holidays is, “they tried to kill us, we lived, let’s eat!”
- js2 7y agoPassover, Purim, and Hanukkah are not every Jewish holiday. Shabbat, the High Holidays, Sukkot, etc.
- xwowsersx 7y agoYou're right that it's not every holiday, but just to be accurate Shabbat is not, strictly legally speaking, a holiday. It is "fixed" from creation, not dependent on the declaration of the new moon and not categorized as a Yom Tov at all (though it does share laws in common, on the surface, with Holidays).
- js2 7y agoThanks for the clarification, but I was interpreting it colloquially. Also, while it may not strictly be a holiday, it is a holy day. :-)
- xwowsersx 7y agoThat is true, I was gonna say that haha!
- xwowsersx 7y agoAlso, a counterpoint: Shabbat is referred to in the text of Kiddush as a "remembrance of the Exodus from Egypt". There are various approaches to explain why this is (it's more obvious for the other holidays mentioned, but less so for Shabbat), but Maimonides' approach is: "This difference can easily be explained. In the former, the cause of the honor and distinction of the day is given: "Therefore the Lord blessed the day of the Sabbath and sanctified it", and the cause for this is, "For in six days," etc. But the fact that G-d has given us the law of the Sabbath and commanded us to keep it, as the consequence of our having been slaves; for then our work did not depend on our will, nor could we choose the time for it; and we could not rest. Thus God commanded us to abstain from work on the Sabbath, and to rest, for two purposes; namely, (1) That we might confirm the true theory, that of the Creation, which at once and clearly leads to the theory of the existence of God. (2) That we might remember how kind God has been in freeing us from the burden of the Egyptians."
- olivermarks 7y ago'The day of the murder, Josce breakfasted (gentaculavit) at Olympias’s home. The jurors skirted around the issue of why Josce was present in Olympias’s domicile at such an early hour. One cannot help but speculate whether the “abominable mixing” which seems to have kept Pope Innocent III up at night dreaming of ways to prevent inter-religious coitus, may have been to blame.[11] Apparently, discord broke out between Josce and Olympias before they had even finished their breakfast. Josce then withdrew, and was immediately killed, although the record does not disclose the identities of the perpetrators'. The murder appears to have been a crime of passion, not uncommon in that era?
- mannykannot 7y agoThe question of prostitution is not explicitly mentioned in the article, but as far as I can tell from it, the dispute could equally have been over payment for services rendered.
- bdowling 7y agoTwo men were also accused of Josce’s murder. The author opines that those two may have killed Josce after being enraged at seeing an affluent Jewish man sleeping around with a Christian woman.
- genieyclo 7y agoWhat is the Latin root of this word "gentaculavit"?
- bdowling 7y agoIt appears to be related to ientaculum, meaning breakfast. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ientaculum#Latin https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ientaculum#Latin
- stevula 7y agoThe form gentaculavit implies it’s a 3rd person singular perfect indicative of a regular 1st conjugation Late Latin verb gentaculare “to eat breakfast”. Knowing that, it’s clearly derived from this Late Latin noun: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/jentaculum#Latin https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/jentaculum#Latin From Wiktionary: gentaculum “breakfast” (alternate spelling of ientaculum/jentaculum). That form ultimately comes from the adjective ieiunus (alternate spelling jejunus) “fasting”. The adjective is a standard word in Classical Latin, but the noun and verb above are not. They are probably later developments or Vulgar Latin (spoken by the common people) that was not preserved in Classical texts. The standard word for breakfast in Classical Latin would be prandium.
- vinceguidry 7y agoDoes anyone have any idea what "secretam familiaritatem" meant from a legal and social perspective? Google didn't yield anything.
- goodcanadian 7y agoI'm pretty sure that means sex.