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I think it is unfortunate that so many Americans don't know about the history of the Black Panthers. In US public school system, we are taught that the Civil R
by cwkoss 7y ago
I think it is unfortunate that so many Americans don't know about the history of the Black Panthers. In US public school system, we are taught that the Civil Rights Act was won through peaceful marching - this is not the whole story.
Black Panthers carried guns to protect protests, and having guns created a situation where cops could not rush in and beat dissent into submission. There is a strong argument that without the second amendment, the Civil Rights Act would not have been passed, and we would still be living in an institutionally segregated society.
I don't own a gun and don't feel I need one because I'm a privileged urban white. Gun control has historically been used as a tool to disarm Black Americans: the NRA supported gun control in response to the Black Panthers! (https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-...)
Any discussion of gun control in America must account for the self-defense rights of Americans who do not have adequate protection from the police.
- homonculus1 7y ago>Any discussion of gun control in America must account for the self-defense rights of Americans who do not have adequate protection from the police. Not to detract from your excellent point but when it comes to personal defense against crime, this applies to everyone who doesn't have private security. Even if the police are 100% on your side, they can't help you if they aren't at your side. When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.
- cwkoss 7y agoI agree. Similarly, most people who live in rural areas also have a need for guns to protect themselves adequately - from animals as well as malicious people - as police and other state protection can be an hour or more away when they try to respond rapidly. I prefer to focus on the Black Panthers use case because there is an interesting cognitive dissonance in the modern left in that anti-racism and gun control are both promoted by the same ideological groups. Tends to be more persuasive in my liberal social bubble as I see a growing lack of empathy for rural Americans. My personal litmus test for gun control legislation is: "Would this law meaningfully decrease access for a black single mother who is a victim of domestic violence and does not have confidence in a timely police response?"
- jammygit 7y agoAs a Canadian, I’m always confused at how safe Americans think a gun makes them when in the woods. Guns are not a good defence against many wild animals. Get some bear spray, it is dramatically more effective and will not kill somebody as easily if you accidentally shoot a person in the dark! Point taken about the civil rights marches though
- CWuestefeld 7y agoIn New Jersey, bear spray is also illegal (or it was when I last lived there, 6 years ago). And this is in a state that acknowledges that there's a problem with bear overpopulation.
- slavik81 7y agoIt appears an amendment to allow bear spray was proposed in 2017, but it hasn't really gone anywhere. https://www.billtrack50.com/BillDetail/842364 https://www.billtrack50.com/BillDetail/842364
- thisisnico 7y agoI have witnessed a teen use bear spray in a fight that took place outside of tim hortons between 20 teens and an (Not naming) Food delivery service driver in their mid 40's. The guy was screaming on the floor for an hour. The Police considered it as a weapon.
- allannienhuis 7y agostill better than having been shot multiple times at close range, no?
- GhettoMaestro 7y agoOh man I'm sure glad that poor youth showed restraint and chose bear mace instead of the glock! Sounds like you just made a great reason for concealed carry.
- jfim 7y ago> Any discussion of gun control in America must account for the self-defense rights of Americans who do not have adequate protection from the police. Interestingly, that would be most of them, with the supreme court ruling that the police does not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-po...
- ridewinter 7y agoOwning a gun makes it 2-3x more likely someone in your family will die by a gun. So it makes you less safe, not more. https://slate.com/technology/2015/01/good-guy-with-a-gun-myth-guns-increase-the-risk-of-homicide-accidents-suicide.html https://slate.com/technology/2015/01/good-guy-with-a-gun-myt... And it definitely makes it less safe for the rest of us in society.
- cwkoss 7y agocorrelation != causality If someone has threatened you with a gun or you live in an area with increased gun violence, I would expect that greatly increases the chances that you'd want to acquire your own. This cohort would already be at a much higher risk of gun death before they owned a gun as well. There has never been a placebo controlled double blind study on gun ownership. Probably never will be because of ethical concerns. It probably does increase risk, but I expect the effect size is much lower than 2-3x.
- mav3rick 7y agoHow about no one has guns ?
- cwkoss 7y agoHow about we fund mental healthcare nationally, reduce wealth inequality, and end racial disparity in policing first? Until then, an attempt to ban all guns is not only a politically infeasible waste of energy, but also seems like a racist attack on the self-defense rights of the disempowered.
- mav3rick 7y agoMost people want stricter background checks. If you pass the checks it's fine. No one is taking away your guns.
- grimjack00 7y ago>No one is taking away your guns. Not yet.
- kube-system 7y ago> No one is taking away your guns. You're right, but it's not due to a lack of trying. Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, and Beto O’Rourke all support mandatory buybacks.
- mikeyouse 7y agoOf specific guns, namely rifles designed for military use. Shotguns, pistols, and low-capacity rifles are still fine.
- kube-system 7y agoI don't think the military uses too many small caliber semi-auto rifles. Any modern military rifle I can think of was banned for new sale in 1986.
- rr-geil-j 7y agoHence Dave Chappelle's 'joke' that African-Americans should start registering for firearm licences en masse.
- dsfyu404ed 7y agoThey don't need licenses unless they want to concealed carry (in most states).
- nerfhammer 7y agoCorrect me if I'm wrong here but the Black Panther Party was formed in 1966 and the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964
- cwkoss 7y agoGood point! I didn't realize that there are two 'Civil Rights Act's from the 60's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964 prohibited school and employment segregation and gave minorities voting rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1968 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1968 prohibited housing discrimination and criminalized hate crimes It appears earlier armed defense was carried out by various groups in the Black Power movement, including the Freedom Riders and Black Armed Guard led by Robert F. Williams. The Black Panthers were ideologically inspired by Williams, but I had conflated earlier action with the later-formed group. Thanks for pointing that out!
- hereme888 7y agoI don't think most Americans care about the history of the black panthers because nowadays they're a bunch of aggressive anti-white racists. At least in the media that's the only thing portrayed about them.