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This is where I sympathize with transhumanist ideas. We should seriously research the possibility of transferring the human consciousness into a machine "body"

by leon_ 16y ago

This is where I sympathize with transhumanist ideas. We should seriously research the possibility of transferring the human consciousness into a machine "body". Our organic bodies will fail us eventually.

gnaritas 16y ago
Presuming such a body existed; imagine yourself sitting in a chair and being told by a doctor that your brain has been successfully copied into the artificial body, and he is now going to kill you, the original. Would you go for that?
- madmoose 16y ago
  The transfer would have to be gradual. Don't ask me how to do that, though :)
- bermanoid 16y ago
  Presumably we'd only be killing off the originals once they were malfunctioning to the point where continuing to live was not a pleasant experience. At that point plenty of people that don't have "backups" are happy to die, so as long as that's how it was happening, then the fact that you're copied into another body is just a bonus, this body is going to die anyways. Further, once you did the switch at least once and had the memory of "waking up" in a new body, you'd have a lot more confidence that "you" would still exist after the transfer.
  - gnaritas 16y ago
    > Presumably we'd only be killing off the originals once they were malfunctioning to the point where continuing to live was not a pleasant experience. I see no reason to presume that; if it worked at all, you'd expect people of all ages to upgrade immediately. > Further, once you did the switch at least once and had the memory of "waking up" in a new body, you'd have a lot more confidence that "you" would still exist after the transfer. That rather is the point of my question... You didn't wake up, a copy did, you got killed afterwards and knew you were about to die. The point was to question the idea that you could ever be uploaded in a meaningful sense. What I personally see actually happening, is people being enhanced to the point where implants make up more of their consciousness than the real brain does and they feel so disabled without the implants on that they no longer see themselves as whole without them. At some point, our idea of consciousness will simply change and then it'll be no big deal killing off the biological part and going pure machine, gradually.
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  The common thought experiment goes something along the lines of this: Replace a single neuron in the brain with an artificial one. Every time you go out drinking you lose plenty more cells, so clearly "you" are still "you". Now do another, and another, and another. At no point do you "break the pattern", but eventually you're left with a completely virtualized mind. Copying the pattern and destroying the original generally counts as "breaking the pattern", which is what you are describing. It's not really a new topic, but is still debated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
- jmillikin 16y ago
  That problem's easily solved. Render the original unconscious before performing the transfer. Keep it in a coma for a few days while verifying the duplicate works as expected, then pull the plug. If the transfer is successful, from your point of view you went to sleep in one body and woke up in another. If it failed, you'll fall asleep and then wake up a few days later.
  - gnaritas 16y ago
    That's not solving the problem, it's avoiding thinking about it. I said you were awake on purpose, it's a condition of the thought experiment; it makes you address what you means.

by leon_ 16y ago

gnaritas 16y ago

Presuming such a body existed; imagine yourself sitting in a chair and being told by a doctor that your brain has been successfully copied into the artificial body, and he is now going to kill you, the original. Would you go for that?

madmoose 16y ago
The transfer would have to be gradual. Don't ask me how to do that, though :)
bermanoid 16y ago
Presumably we'd only be killing off the originals once they were malfunctioning to the point where continuing to live was not a pleasant experience. At that point plenty of people that don't have "backups" are happy to die, so as long as that's how it was happening, then the fact that you're copied into another body is just a bonus, this body is going to die anyways. Further, once you did the switch at least once and had the memory of "waking up" in a new body, you'd have a lot more confidence that "you" would still exist after the transfer.
- gnaritas 16y ago
  > Presumably we'd only be killing off the originals once they were malfunctioning to the point where continuing to live was not a pleasant experience. I see no reason to presume that; if it worked at all, you'd expect people of all ages to upgrade immediately. > Further, once you did the switch at least once and had the memory of "waking up" in a new body, you'd have a lot more confidence that "you" would still exist after the transfer. That rather is the point of my question... You didn't wake up, a copy did, you got killed afterwards and knew you were about to die. The point was to question the idea that you could ever be uploaded in a meaningful sense. What I personally see actually happening, is people being enhanced to the point where implants make up more of their consciousness than the real brain does and they feel so disabled without the implants on that they no longer see themselves as whole without them. At some point, our idea of consciousness will simply change and then it'll be no big deal killing off the biological part and going pure machine, gradually.
burgerbrain 16y ago
The common thought experiment goes something along the lines of this: Replace a single neuron in the brain with an artificial one. Every time you go out drinking you lose plenty more cells, so clearly "you" are still "you". Now do another, and another, and another. At no point do you "break the pattern", but eventually you're left with a completely virtualized mind. Copying the pattern and destroying the original generally counts as "breaking the pattern", which is what you are describing. It's not really a new topic, but is still debated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
jmillikin 16y ago
That problem's easily solved. Render the original unconscious before performing the transfer. Keep it in a coma for a few days while verifying the duplicate works as expected, then pull the plug. If the transfer is successful, from your point of view you went to sleep in one body and woke up in another. If it failed, you'll fall asleep and then wake up a few days later.
- gnaritas 16y ago
  That's not solving the problem, it's avoiding thinking about it. I said you were awake on purpose, it's a condition of the thought experiment; it makes you address what you means.