3 ms·

I think it's a requirement of remote work. You can't pay someone in Malaysia the rate of someone in Silicon Valley. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should

by gwillz 7y ago

I think it's a requirement of remote work. You can't pay someone in Malaysia the rate of someone in Silicon Valley. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should get fair wages. But that's just not how it works in different societies. "Fair wages" means different things in different places.

rorykoehler 7y ago
Basecamp do it. It's about the value you deliver for the company.
- avinium 7y ago
  > It's about the value you deliver for the company. Well, yes, but $1 in Malaysia goes a lot further than $1 in SV. So "equal pay" isn't really equal at all. COL-adjusted salaries are perfectly reasonable in my opinion.
  - strzibny 7y ago
    It's pretty equal actually. Work -> Reward. If you then go on living a life on a boat, meditate in a monastery, or enjoy hipster life in San Francisco are your choices and you pay for them accordingly. Please explain to me how one person working 5 years in the valley and retiring for the rest of the life in Philippines got "equal pay" with someone working in the Philippines from the start until they are dead.
    - gwillz 7y ago
      What if I'm working for a global company based in Malaysia? Would I be happy to be paid the regular rate of a Malaysian developer while I live in Silicon Valley? Or would I demand a higher pay? Does that mean everyone in the Malaysian office gets paid more? Does the company go under? GitLab is in a weird position because they have workers in both. We don't chastise a local Malaysian company for paying the local rates, but we do for GitLab? It's an unfair reality, but not an unlivable one. A cheaper lifestyle isn't necessarily a degraded one. That still doesn't make it fair. I personally believe these global companies could step up and try to change that. But that's if it weren't about profits - which is is.
  - wolco 7y ago
    But someone in Malaysia stills pays full price to connect to gitlabs.
    - gwillz 7y ago
      I think that's great example of why this is a difficult conversation. Global commodities are typically fixed and can be prohibitive to some localities. Who budges? Do the global companies lower their prices or do local economies step up and pay more? Or even are they able to pay more?
  - rorykoehler 7y ago
    Basecamp HQ is in Chicago so $1 is worth whatever it is worth in Chicago.
barry-cotter 7y ago
> I think it's a requirement of remote work. You can't pay someone in Malaysia the rate of someone in Silicon Valley. Why not? I understand why GitLab does it, it increases profits, but why can’t you pay someone in Malaysia Silicon Valley wages? If there was an individual contributor they wanted badly enough they’d break policy and I’d be surprised if there aren’t some people for whom exceptions have been made.
em-bee 7y ago
why not? why should my work be paid less, just because i live in a cheaper place? maybe the life is cheaper here, but i end up spending more money to get things that aren't local. in particular, if i want to keep my european lifestyle, malaysia ends up being more expensive than europe. same goes for most other asian countries. it gets worse with kids. education is very expensive in asia if you want to get the same quality as europe. and i also need to factor in expensive travel to visit family back home. average cost of living is meaningless. life is only cheaper if you accept the local living standards and if you don't have any family on another continent. so you are telling me that me having to accept a worse standard of living than you is fair?
- strzibny 7y ago
  Exactly!
- gwillz 7y ago
  I probably shouldn't have said "can't" be paid the same. Instead something more like "don't need to". Up front, I believe everyone should be paid the same. I want that. But I do accept local living standards. I must - and therefore I am paid less. It's just a reality of our world today. I think this conversation is about how global our economies are. Which I think are more local than people believe. Also keep in mind that cheaper living isn't always worse living, just cheaper.
  - em-bee 7y ago
    same difference. i need to be paid the same, otherwise i can't afford working for you. and i decidedly disagree that cheaper living isn't always worse. it is. that was the whole point of my post. traveling to visit family, sending my kids to a school with european standards, getting insurance for european quality medical care, all are expensive no matter where i go. i have lived on 4 continents in dozens of countries. i have yet to find a place where a high standard of living was cheaper. cheaper living always required trade-offs.
wolco 7y ago
You could but you don't need to is more accurate. But both produce the same value.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

by gwillz 7y ago

rorykoehler 7y ago

Basecamp do it. It's about the value you deliver for the company.

avinium 7y ago
> It's about the value you deliver for the company. Well, yes, but $1 in Malaysia goes a lot further than $1 in SV. So "equal pay" isn't really equal at all. COL-adjusted salaries are perfectly reasonable in my opinion.
- strzibny 7y ago
  It's pretty equal actually. Work -> Reward. If you then go on living a life on a boat, meditate in a monastery, or enjoy hipster life in San Francisco are your choices and you pay for them accordingly. Please explain to me how one person working 5 years in the valley and retiring for the rest of the life in Philippines got "equal pay" with someone working in the Philippines from the start until they are dead.
  - gwillz 7y ago
    What if I'm working for a global company based in Malaysia? Would I be happy to be paid the regular rate of a Malaysian developer while I live in Silicon Valley? Or would I demand a higher pay? Does that mean everyone in the Malaysian office gets paid more? Does the company go under? GitLab is in a weird position because they have workers in both. We don't chastise a local Malaysian company for paying the local rates, but we do for GitLab? It's an unfair reality, but not an unlivable one. A cheaper lifestyle isn't necessarily a degraded one. That still doesn't make it fair. I personally believe these global companies could step up and try to change that. But that's if it weren't about profits - which is is.
- wolco 7y ago
  But someone in Malaysia stills pays full price to connect to gitlabs.
  - gwillz 7y ago
    I think that's great example of why this is a difficult conversation. Global commodities are typically fixed and can be prohibitive to some localities. Who budges? Do the global companies lower their prices or do local economies step up and pay more? Or even are they able to pay more?
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  Basecamp HQ is in Chicago so $1 is worth whatever it is worth in Chicago.

barry-cotter 7y ago

> I think it's a requirement of remote work. You can't pay someone in Malaysia the rate of someone in Silicon Valley. Why not? I understand why GitLab does it, it increases profits, but why can’t you pay someone in Malaysia Silicon Valley wages? If there was an individual contributor they wanted badly enough they’d break policy and I’d be surprised if there aren’t some people for whom exceptions have been made.

em-bee 7y ago

why not? why should my work be paid less, just because i live in a cheaper place? maybe the life is cheaper here, but i end up spending more money to get things that aren't local. in particular, if i want to keep my european lifestyle, malaysia ends up being more expensive than europe. same goes for most other asian countries. it gets worse with kids. education is very expensive in asia if you want to get the same quality as europe. and i also need to factor in expensive travel to visit family back home. average cost of living is meaningless. life is only cheaper if you accept the local living standards and if you don't have any family on another continent. so you are telling me that me having to accept a worse standard of living than you is fair?

strzibny 7y ago
Exactly!
gwillz 7y ago
I probably shouldn't have said "can't" be paid the same. Instead something more like "don't need to". Up front, I believe everyone should be paid the same. I want that. But I do accept local living standards. I must - and therefore I am paid less. It's just a reality of our world today. I think this conversation is about how global our economies are. Which I think are more local than people believe. Also keep in mind that cheaper living isn't always worse living, just cheaper.
- em-bee 7y ago
  same difference. i need to be paid the same, otherwise i can't afford working for you. and i decidedly disagree that cheaper living isn't always worse. it is. that was the whole point of my post. traveling to visit family, sending my kids to a school with european standards, getting insurance for european quality medical care, all are expensive no matter where i go. i have lived on 4 continents in dozens of countries. i have yet to find a place where a high standard of living was cheaper. cheaper living always required trade-offs.

wolco 7y ago

You could but you don't need to is more accurate. But both produce the same value.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]