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Single data-point here: As someone who's worked mostly full-remote for 5+ years and has been in an office for the past 2 years: I absolutely prefer being in an

Single data-point here: As someone who's worked mostly full-remote for 5+ years and has been in an office for the past 2 years: I absolutely prefer being in an office with my coworkers. Everyone has different priorities of course, but commuting and location-lock-in aside the office wins in all categories for me. I could technically be working from home whenever I want but unless I have practical reasons to work from home I always come in. Interesting conversation, though. And I think that in order to make it work properly, you kind of need to be "remote-first" as a team (most communication digital) or you will be hit with chaos. And I think it's really great that GitLab is going all-in on this. There are also many teams in the cryptocurrency/blockchain space that are fully remote, where the team members meet physically a couple of times a year for conferences or team retreats.

codingdave 7y ago
I hear a variation on this comment every time remote work comes up. I completely respect your preference, but I suspect the people who feel this way are a vocal minority. I've worked remotely for 7 years now, and find that the majority love it and would not want to return to an office. Yet, it isn't for everyone. I think it is great to know which camp you fall in, and seek out work that lets you succeed in whichever environment works best for you.
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  I don't think the "remote vs. local workplace" dichotomy is going to last for long. Eventually we're going to figure out how to integrate both approaches into the same companies. At my job, we have one remote employee and it's incredibly painful. Removing even the tiniest bit of friction there would be greatly appreciated. I think the steps outlined in this interview, oriented around taking small, iterative steps fast, is going to soon become the new norm for work, but that will require advancements in the state of technical architecture. Microservices needs a new, language-agnostic framework. I'm excited for GraalVM, might be the only thing Oracle ever gets right.
  - rorykoehler 7y ago
    My company already operates remotely even though half the team are in the office. It's not rocket science. Use Slack or similar, using Google Drive or similar, have daily or less frequent phone standups depending on the project/process and pick up the phone when you need to.
  - fernandotakai 7y ago
    >At my job, we have one remote employee and it's incredibly painful. Removing even the tiniest bit of friction there would be greatly appreciated. my rule for remote work, is that remote should be first. even if you only have one remote employee. i also realized that this is actually a good thing -- because if someone get sick, has an emergency and has to work from home for sometime, it doesn't break the team's flow.
    - vinceguidry 7y ago
      What do you mean by "first?"
      - fernandotakai 7y ago
        i follow stackoverflow's definition https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/02/08/means-remote-first-company/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/02/08/means-remote-first-com... but i recently read circleci's blogpost on remote first, and it's really good too https://circleci.com/blog/what-almost-failing-the-gre-taught-me-about-barriers-to-entry/ https://circleci.com/blog/what-almost-failing-the-gre-taught...
  - apple4ever 7y ago
    > I don't think the "remote vs. local workplace" dichotomy is going to last for long. Eventually we're going to figure out how to integrate both approaches into the same companies. That should be the goal. Some people like full local, some like full remote, some (like me) like a mix. I would guess the majority fall into the later. Companies should cater to all three, because A) its not hard to do, B) its cheaper for them, and C) they don't eliminate great employees.
- buboard 7y ago
  I feel we need to speak up, yes. Working online, whenever you want is a change from which there is no going back for me. I get a chance of office fun once every two weeks and that just reminds me how inefficient waste of time it is. People should value their time more... after all it s the one thing we cant buy I understand the other side but I attribute the downsides to the fact that modern lifestyle has not adapted. Americans seem to center their social life around work, so yeah thats gonna be rough if you go remote. Esp. if you work in a boring residential-only suburb. I think we re about to see lots of changes around this culture in the following years
- skellera 7y ago
  Yes, the majority of the people who work remote, enjoy remote. I’m pretty sure the kind of person who likes it will typically seek it out. I’m in the same position as the other person. I just quit my remote job for a local in-office position.
  - wolco 7y ago
    I guess the issue is many in office workers would rather work from home at least some of the time.
- brlewis 7y ago
  Have you seen a variation on this comment from someone who left gitlab? I'm curious how much people's affinity for remote work depends on the way the company does remote.
- nicoburns 7y ago
  It's not either-or though. My team is remote ~50% of the week. In many ways it's the best of both worlds.
abyssin 7y ago
I became a developer partly because it looked like the best career for a nomadic lifestyle, for which I'd need to work remotely. But I ended up dropping the nomadic lifestyle and I can no longer see myself working from home without suffering from loneliness. Socialising is almost as important a motivator as salary in my case.
aNoob7000 7y ago
What is your daily commute to work like? Is it 30 minutes round trip? I think this will influence whether or not you like working in an office all the time or not.
- arnmac 7y ago
  I spent a decade of at least 1 hour in and 1.5 hours back every day. That is a lot of time I wish I could get back in my life. When you work 8 hours + 2.5 hours commute it all adds up. Plus 8 hours wasn't really the amount it was more. Go in earlier to avoid traffic. Get stuck in a late meeting and work time increases plus more time in traffic. I now work remotely and do enjoy some aspects of it. However, there is much to be said for the co-location of coworkers. If everyone on your team is in an office and you are somewhere else you lose part of the dynamic. You have to work harder to stay in the loop on things instead of just organically being in the know.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    When I commuted I was lucky to keep it within about 30-40 minutes, even after I bought a house, for most of my time. I did have a year where I commuted 1.5+ hours each way 3-4 days a week. I could take the train some days but still a huge chunk out of my day. I couldn't have dealt with that long term.
- Legogris 7y ago
  I sacrificed a couple of other priorities to get a flat within 10 minutes walk from the office. So yeah, no long commutes for me either way. I think around 30 minutes door-to-door is where I would draw the line, personally.
nabla9 7y ago
Urban economists have identified many agglomeration benefits from living and working close to others. One of them is knowledge spillovers and benefits from randomly bumping against each other. Not just in the same workplace but people working in different companies etc. If you have a local meeting the immediate aftermath can be more useful than the actual meeting. You talk a little more and one-to-one with someone and exchange ideas and maybe you quickly go over some difficult issues.

codingdave 7y ago

I hear a variation on this comment every time remote work comes up. I completely respect your preference, but I suspect the people who feel this way are a vocal minority. I've worked remotely for 7 years now, and find that the majority love it and would not want to return to an office. Yet, it isn't for everyone. I think it is great to know which camp you fall in, and seek out work that lets you succeed in whichever environment works best for you.

vinceguidry 7y ago
I don't think the "remote vs. local workplace" dichotomy is going to last for long. Eventually we're going to figure out how to integrate both approaches into the same companies. At my job, we have one remote employee and it's incredibly painful. Removing even the tiniest bit of friction there would be greatly appreciated. I think the steps outlined in this interview, oriented around taking small, iterative steps fast, is going to soon become the new norm for work, but that will require advancements in the state of technical architecture. Microservices needs a new, language-agnostic framework. I'm excited for GraalVM, might be the only thing Oracle ever gets right.
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  My company already operates remotely even though half the team are in the office. It's not rocket science. Use Slack or similar, using Google Drive or similar, have daily or less frequent phone standups depending on the project/process and pick up the phone when you need to.
- fernandotakai 7y ago
  >At my job, we have one remote employee and it's incredibly painful. Removing even the tiniest bit of friction there would be greatly appreciated. my rule for remote work, is that remote should be first. even if you only have one remote employee. i also realized that this is actually a good thing -- because if someone get sick, has an emergency and has to work from home for sometime, it doesn't break the team's flow.
  - vinceguidry 7y ago
    What do you mean by "first?"
    - fernandotakai 7y ago
      i follow stackoverflow's definition https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/02/08/means-remote-first-company/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/02/08/means-remote-first-com... but i recently read circleci's blogpost on remote first, and it's really good too https://circleci.com/blog/what-almost-failing-the-gre-taught-me-about-barriers-to-entry/ https://circleci.com/blog/what-almost-failing-the-gre-taught...
- apple4ever 7y ago
  > I don't think the "remote vs. local workplace" dichotomy is going to last for long. Eventually we're going to figure out how to integrate both approaches into the same companies. That should be the goal. Some people like full local, some like full remote, some (like me) like a mix. I would guess the majority fall into the later. Companies should cater to all three, because A) its not hard to do, B) its cheaper for them, and C) they don't eliminate great employees.
buboard 7y ago
I feel we need to speak up, yes. Working online, whenever you want is a change from which there is no going back for me. I get a chance of office fun once every two weeks and that just reminds me how inefficient waste of time it is. People should value their time more... after all it s the one thing we cant buy I understand the other side but I attribute the downsides to the fact that modern lifestyle has not adapted. Americans seem to center their social life around work, so yeah thats gonna be rough if you go remote. Esp. if you work in a boring residential-only suburb. I think we re about to see lots of changes around this culture in the following years
skellera 7y ago
Yes, the majority of the people who work remote, enjoy remote. I’m pretty sure the kind of person who likes it will typically seek it out. I’m in the same position as the other person. I just quit my remote job for a local in-office position.
- wolco 7y ago
  I guess the issue is many in office workers would rather work from home at least some of the time.
brlewis 7y ago
Have you seen a variation on this comment from someone who left gitlab? I'm curious how much people's affinity for remote work depends on the way the company does remote.
nicoburns 7y ago
It's not either-or though. My team is remote ~50% of the week. In many ways it's the best of both worlds.

abyssin 7y ago

I became a developer partly because it looked like the best career for a nomadic lifestyle, for which I'd need to work remotely. But I ended up dropping the nomadic lifestyle and I can no longer see myself working from home without suffering from loneliness. Socialising is almost as important a motivator as salary in my case.

aNoob7000 7y ago

What is your daily commute to work like? Is it 30 minutes round trip? I think this will influence whether or not you like working in an office all the time or not.

arnmac 7y ago
I spent a decade of at least 1 hour in and 1.5 hours back every day. That is a lot of time I wish I could get back in my life. When you work 8 hours + 2.5 hours commute it all adds up. Plus 8 hours wasn't really the amount it was more. Go in earlier to avoid traffic. Get stuck in a late meeting and work time increases plus more time in traffic. I now work remotely and do enjoy some aspects of it. However, there is much to be said for the co-location of coworkers. If everyone on your team is in an office and you are somewhere else you lose part of the dynamic. You have to work harder to stay in the loop on things instead of just organically being in the know.
- ghaff 7y ago
  When I commuted I was lucky to keep it within about 30-40 minutes, even after I bought a house, for most of my time. I did have a year where I commuted 1.5+ hours each way 3-4 days a week. I could take the train some days but still a huge chunk out of my day. I couldn't have dealt with that long term.
Legogris 7y ago
I sacrificed a couple of other priorities to get a flat within 10 minutes walk from the office. So yeah, no long commutes for me either way. I think around 30 minutes door-to-door is where I would draw the line, personally.

nabla9 7y ago

Urban economists have identified many agglomeration benefits from living and working close to others. One of them is knowledge spillovers and benefits from randomly bumping against each other. Not just in the same workplace but people working in different companies etc. If you have a local meeting the immediate aftermath can be more useful than the actual meeting. You talk a little more and one-to-one with someone and exchange ideas and maybe you quickly go over some difficult issues.