5 ms·

Brothers, I Must Go

34 points by tomohawk 7y ago

bjourne 7y ago
Apparently there is an ongoing Stack Exchange sites' moderator rebellion: https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5193/stack-overflow-inc-sinat-chinam-and-the-goat-for-azazel https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5193/stack-... https://cs.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1650/i-am-resigning-as-a-moderator https://cs.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1650/i-am-resign... https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested-in-cooper https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
rozab 7y ago
So this guys problem is that the new CoC requires him to respect peoples chosen pronouns? And it looks like this was that Monica person's problem too. I think SE are totally within their rights to enforce a policy like this without negotiation, although clearly a miscommunication has occurred. I think the people who object to it are imagining a situation with a mythical SJW boogeyperson saying "Don't misgender me! my pronouns are xe/xem/xyr on weekdays and xi/hir/hir after 7 o'clock, unless I feel like a ve/ver/vis in which case you must read my mind and use those." In reality, I think the likely scenario is more like "I'm a she :)", and unless you continue to use 'he' pronouns then there isn't a problem. When put this way, it sounds like a much more reasonable policy and I think it would be fair to eject people who object to this from the community (with due process of course). SE have failed to communicate this properly, and also have failed to react to this crisis in a reasonable way. However, from reading this blog post (which actually goes as far as to quote that "First they came..." poem), and Monica's one, I suspect this is not the root of the problem. Not all beliefs can or should be tolerated, as is touched upon in a quote in Monica's post. That is the purpose of a CoC, to set up a reasonable framework of rules upon which debate and discussion can take place.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Elrac 7y ago
  I read most of that salty social-media-suicide note and got the same vibe. "Help! This site is failing to tolerate my religiously motivated bigotry -- I'm being oppressed!" I would not be surprised if SE's internal dialog includes the words "good riddance."
  - alerque 7y ago
    Salty eh? Okay. I explicitly noted I wasn't being repressed, but thanks for thinking about me. The way volunteers have been treated is not good, and the rules the company is making are going alienate lots of people. Not the ones they care about apparently, but lots of people none the less. There is a difference been limited speech (which SE has always been a limited zone, not a free zone) and forced speech. You might not care about this issue, but someday when somebody wants to force you to do something you don't believe in, you'll understand the difference. I sincerely hope its for something minor for you and you get enough early warning that it doesn't get out of hand. By the way I'd be surprised to learn _anybody_ at SE thought I did a bad job for the site they appointed me to help with.
    - ianleeclark 7y ago
      > I explicitly noted I wasn't being repressed Dude you quoted Niemöller. The first line of the poem immediately brings to mind political prisoners being thrown into Dachau.
      - alerque 7y ago
        I have made a substantial rewrite to my post, including adding some context to explain why I used that poem.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
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vcoelho 7y ago
Yep, definetely this dude must go.
- alerque 7y ago
  Do you think I am unfit to moderate the specific site and community I was appointed (and later elected) to moderate? Does any of my history indicate that I did a bad job of that? Has any of my history on any other site on the network been offensive or been disrespectful even when I disagreed? Or are you just happy to see less platform space given to belief systems that differ from your own?
amai 7y ago
There have been many incidents like this lately: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested-in-cooper https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-...
charwalker 7y ago
Can someone leak the new CoC so we can actually see if these issues are valid or, as all of these self posts seem to be, just transphobic mods going their own way?
beerandt 7y ago
I've heard hundreds of versions of this metaphor, but none so affectively well phrased and poignant. >That agency has been stripped away from us. I feel like if I stay hiding behind my diamond moderator I'll be like a captain staying at the tiller of a boat whose rudder has been removed. The wheel I'm holding doesn't do anything any more and I know it. So why pretend this is going to be anything but a shipwreck eventually? Regardless of one's viewpoint, the whole letter is a great example of persuasive-testimony. Or I thought so, anyway.
- alerque 7y ago
  Thanks, I hope I didn't ruin it just now with all the copy-editing ;-)

34 points by tomohawk 7y ago

Apparently there is an ongoing Stack Exchange sites' moderator rebellion: https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5193/stack-overflow-inc-sinat-chinam-and-the-goat-for-azazel https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5193/stack-... https://cs.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1650/i-am-resigning-as-a-moderator https://cs.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1650/i-am-resign... https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested-in-cooper https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

rozab 7y ago

So this guys problem is that the new CoC requires him to respect peoples chosen pronouns? And it looks like this was that Monica person's problem too. I think SE are totally within their rights to enforce a policy like this without negotiation, although clearly a miscommunication has occurred. I think the people who object to it are imagining a situation with a mythical SJW boogeyperson saying "Don't misgender me! my pronouns are xe/xem/xyr on weekdays and xi/hir/hir after 7 o'clock, unless I feel like a ve/ver/vis in which case you must read my mind and use those." In reality, I think the likely scenario is more like "I'm a she :)", and unless you continue to use 'he' pronouns then there isn't a problem. When put this way, it sounds like a much more reasonable policy and I think it would be fair to eject people who object to this from the community (with due process of course). SE have failed to communicate this properly, and also have failed to react to this crisis in a reasonable way. However, from reading this blog post (which actually goes as far as to quote that "First they came..." poem), and Monica's one, I suspect this is not the root of the problem. Not all beliefs can or should be tolerated, as is touched upon in a quote in Monica's post. That is the purpose of a CoC, to set up a reasonable framework of rules upon which debate and discussion can take place.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Elrac 7y ago
I read most of that salty social-media-suicide note and got the same vibe. "Help! This site is failing to tolerate my religiously motivated bigotry -- I'm being oppressed!" I would not be surprised if SE's internal dialog includes the words "good riddance."
- alerque 7y ago
  Salty eh? Okay. I explicitly noted I wasn't being repressed, but thanks for thinking about me. The way volunteers have been treated is not good, and the rules the company is making are going alienate lots of people. Not the ones they care about apparently, but lots of people none the less. There is a difference been limited speech (which SE has always been a limited zone, not a free zone) and forced speech. You might not care about this issue, but someday when somebody wants to force you to do something you don't believe in, you'll understand the difference. I sincerely hope its for something minor for you and you get enough early warning that it doesn't get out of hand. By the way I'd be surprised to learn _anybody_ at SE thought I did a bad job for the site they appointed me to help with.
  - ianleeclark 7y ago
    > I explicitly noted I wasn't being repressed Dude you quoted Niemöller. The first line of the poem immediately brings to mind political prisoners being thrown into Dachau.
    - alerque 7y ago
      I have made a substantial rewrite to my post, including adding some context to explain why I used that poem.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

vcoelho 7y ago

Yep, definetely this dude must go.

alerque 7y ago
Do you think I am unfit to moderate the specific site and community I was appointed (and later elected) to moderate? Does any of my history indicate that I did a bad job of that? Has any of my history on any other site on the network been offensive or been disrespectful even when I disagreed? Or are you just happy to see less platform space given to belief systems that differ from your own?

amai 7y ago

There have been many incidents like this lately: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested-in-cooper https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-...

charwalker 7y ago

Can someone leak the new CoC so we can actually see if these issues are valid or, as all of these self posts seem to be, just transphobic mods going their own way?

beerandt 7y ago

I've heard hundreds of versions of this metaphor, but none so affectively well phrased and poignant. >That agency has been stripped away from us. I feel like if I stay hiding behind my diamond moderator I'll be like a captain staying at the tiller of a boat whose rudder has been removed. The wheel I'm holding doesn't do anything any more and I know it. So why pretend this is going to be anything but a shipwreck eventually? Regardless of one's viewpoint, the whole letter is a great example of persuasive-testimony. Or I thought so, anyway.

alerque 7y ago
Thanks, I hope I didn't ruin it just now with all the copy-editing ;-)