6 ms·

> ...the workload we had mostly kept us working separately on our own tasks with little room for interaction. It wasn’t uncommon, for the first part of my time

by dangwu 7y ago

> ...the workload we had mostly kept us working separately on our own tasks with little room for interaction. It wasn’t uncommon, for the first part of my time at Snap, to get up in the morning, drive to the office, go through the work-day in the same room as two other people but rarely speaking to each other, and then drive home... Sadly, I find this to be all too common in the industry. It’s super isolating and depressing when you work alone on projects and aren’t in an environment that fosters socialization and team-building. Forming those bonds is what makes people happy to go to work everyday and work hard. Managers should do more to prioritize interaction and teaming up on projects when it makes sense.

huhtenberg 7y ago
This actually sounds like a near-perfect setup to me. Get it, program, get out. If I want to socialize, I'll do it outside of work.
- sanderdlm 7y ago
  It may sound like it but I can assure you that it's not. Humans are social animals and when you have to spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week in a setting with little to no peer interaction, it'll start to wear on you. The first month is awesome. Complete freedom & autonomy, then the depression starts kicking in.
  - emptyfile 7y ago
    What the heck are you talking about, that sounds perfect. Work colleges suck.
  - Kiro 7y ago
    I've been in the situation without any colleagues to speak with for years and still love it. We are all different.
  - huhtenberg 7y ago
    You certainly can assure me, but that won't do much. I've been doing it for 30 years, I know how I like it.
    - saalweachter 7y ago
      The distinction is going to be whether you have a rich social network outside of work. Stack up immediate family, extended family, a handful of close longtime friends, church, a softball team, a couple of hobbyist groups, and a volunteer board, and your half dozen colleagues you were randomly assigned to work near can seem rather superfluous. On the other hand, you take a bunch of young people straight out of college, collect them from around the country and the world, drop them in a new city without any social network, lean on them to work 50, 60 hour weeks, and suddenly socializing with your coworkers becomes very important, especially if you're single, not very religious, and not very outgoing. The alternative is complete isolation and sad phone calls with friends and family thousands of miles away.
      - Konnstann 7y ago
        Man, this really resonates with me, basically my situation right now. I love my job and my colleagues, but I basically have no close friends outside of work in my city since moving.
        saalweachter 7y ago
        One piece of advice is to not focus on making close friends. They're important, and it's really nice having some nearby, but it's not really any easier to make a new close friend than to start any other long-term relationship. Instead, just focus on (a) meeting as many people as you can bear and (b) establishing membership in a few groups with regular activities. The latter is more straight forward, and can accomplish the former. There are lots of options: signing up for a sports league, taking classes (art classes, exercise classes, continuing education classes, whatever), going to a board games meetup group, joining a volunteer organization, join a church (or whatever) if you're even mildly religious. Friendships, like all relationships, are built on shared interests and repeat interactions. You can also meet a lot of people without joining any groups, although it's easier if you're the sort of naturally sociable person who can strike up a conversation with anyone you're around for more than two minutes. Besides the obvious (go to places there are people, talk to them), or the "run for political office" strategy (it gives you a reason to go and introduce yourself to a few thousand people in your area), there's also the reverse strategy, where you establish a routine. Pick a few activities to do yourself, and do them on a regular, predictable basis in public. Go for a walk or a run every day at the same time, on the same route. Go read at the library or a park a coffee shop at the same time every week. Go to a farmer's market every weekend. You don't need to schedule your entire life on a recurring basis, but by just keeping a regular schedule you will make yourself more visible, familiar and approachable to the people around you, and they'll feel comfortable saying "hi" or introducing themselves. While meeting lots of people and joining a few groups can lead to finding a few close friends, it's also a big help in itself in alleviating the isolation which comes with moving to a new place. You'll be surprised at even the difference that just introducing yourself to a couple hundred people makes. Suddenly, everyone around you isn't just one flavor or another of "stranger"; you know their names (or at least, some of them, depending on your memory for names and faces), and they know yours. You've been introduced, so now you can wave or say "hi" or comment on the weather without it being weird.
  - astura 7y ago
    You're wrong. I did this for over five years (I was working as the only dev on a project, PM gave me 100% autonomy), it's just fine. Work is for work, not hanging out. I would have liked to work on a team for that project, but not because I needed to socialize. Humans are social, but I socialize outside of work. Very early in my career I was working with other young engineers and I wanted work to be a social place too. I learned from that quickly, there's much too many downsides: you don't get to pick your coworkers so sometimes they end up being not great as "friends," you realize that work relationships are incredibly shallow because no matter how much time you spent socializing once one of you leaves the company you never see each other again, trying to turn the office into social hour interferes with work, it's probably best my coworkers don't see the same side of me as my friends.
    - sethammons 7y ago
      > Humans are social, but I socialize outside of work. I see this sentiment a lot and I don't get it. You are spending more time with your coworkers than anyone else. I'm not saying you should find your best friend in the office, but enjoying your time with coworkers seems like a good thing. Maybe the definitions of socializing are different. I'm not talking about after hours drinks or philosophically debating for hours. I'm thinking chit chat, jokes, having shared strife reaching a common goal, feeling better for having worked with them, and generally enjoying the 1/3 of a day you spend with them. Professional and friendly. It also so happens that the majority of people I work with I would likely make time to see outside of work from time to time. Non-work socializing is different and more fulfilling, but you have much less time to squeeze that in outside of weekends, which are also squeezed for time when you have a family.
  - bitL 7y ago
    Throw regular parties at home with people you know outside from work. Don't talk shop.
- neuronic 7y ago
  What a horrible working style. You can be very productive while being social as well. In fact, the shittiest projects have consistently been those where people don't communicate and communication includes a human factor, starting at the most basic level. Why? Because fundamentally we are social animals and opening up to this circumstance will allow meaningful, project-related communication at a much more useful level when you previously connected at a human level. I find it exceedingly weird when you have next to no interest in the people you work with for 8+ hours every single day.
  - golergka 7y ago
    I'm on the same team as you - that's why I can't really work remotely - but let's acknowledge that it's a personal preference. People are different, much more than we can usually imagine. You can't tell another person, whom you really don't know that well, what she can or cannot do; and different projects require different people and different models of communication.
    - neuronic 7y ago
      I acknowledge it, yes. And I should be more thoughtful of people with. for example, heavier levels of introversion than me. A really good setup would likely be something that respects all sides on the spectrum - people who prefer to be quiet and working in solitude should not be judged for it. Neither should people with more social approaches be dreaded by the introverts. That would be ideal. In essence, we need a system that is able to integrate all preferences and make use of them in the most productive way. Thank you for reminding me that I should be more considerate.
      - golergka 7y ago
        It think that we already have this system, it's called capitalism. Different companies have different internal cultures, some are for lone hackers in individual cabinets or remote locations, some favour giant open floor plans with constant communication. That's what culture fit is mostly about for me: most aren't better or worse, they're just different.
- mustacheemperor 7y ago
  Personally this slides from a near-perfect setup to a completely-awful setup once I need to leave my house and drive to an office (or luxury condo, apparently) to do this, for literally no reason. I'd also reckon a typical remote team probably has more of the routine social interaction some other comments here describe as personally beneficial than this arrangement.
cntlzw 7y ago
Yes, maybe it is just me, but that does sound like a good work environment. I do not call myself socially awkward, but at work, I want to work! Getting stuff done.
- _pmf_ 7y ago
  Agreed. It's a sign of functioning project management. Excessive team decisions and discussions are a sign of dysfunctional project management.
  - sethammons 7y ago
    Decentralized decision making is key to reducing coats of delays on getting things shipped. Teams should be part of the project management, have an understanding of business priorities, and be having discussions and making decisions. This is functioning project management.
- dagw 7y ago
  I want to work! Getting stuff done. Me too! And I find it much easier and faster to get better stuff done when on a team with smart and creative people rather than locked away trying to solve everything on my own. Working with smart people who know things I don't is inspiring and makes me produce better work, and hopefully they can gain from my areas of expertise. It doesn't even have to have anything to do with socializing per se. I don't need to know about your kids or what you did on your weekend and we don't even have to eat lunch together or go out for beers after work. But for me having someone I turn to and say "Hey can you take look at this thing, I can't get it to work" and having them understand what I'm trying to do and say "Have you considered this different approach, here let me show you" is a key to me getting my best stuff done.
  - astura 7y ago
    I don't think anyone is arguing against that sort of team/co-worker interaction.
    - 7y ago
outime 7y ago
> Forming those bonds is what makes people happy to go to work everyday and work hard. No, not really. It depends of your personality. Some people are more than happy doing pure work tasks. It’d be a mistake to think that everyone likes the same environment.
Kiro 7y ago
> Forming those bonds is what makes people happy to go to work everyday and work hard. Definitely not. I want 0 colleagues.
bitL 7y ago
This would be a perfect setup for remote work. Working from Hawaii, near people you love, overlooking some nice bay, working on independent taks. Way more attractive than working at FAANG, squeezed in noisy open-plan offices preventing one from getting those tasks done, then stuck in traffic and paying top prices for a single room with roommates.

by dangwu 7y ago

huhtenberg 7y ago

This actually sounds like a near-perfect setup to me. Get it, program, get out. If I want to socialize, I'll do it outside of work.

sanderdlm 7y ago
It may sound like it but I can assure you that it's not. Humans are social animals and when you have to spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week in a setting with little to no peer interaction, it'll start to wear on you. The first month is awesome. Complete freedom & autonomy, then the depression starts kicking in.
- emptyfile 7y ago
  What the heck are you talking about, that sounds perfect. Work colleges suck.
- Kiro 7y ago
  I've been in the situation without any colleagues to speak with for years and still love it. We are all different.
- huhtenberg 7y ago
  You certainly can assure me, but that won't do much. I've been doing it for 30 years, I know how I like it.
  - saalweachter 7y ago
    The distinction is going to be whether you have a rich social network outside of work. Stack up immediate family, extended family, a handful of close longtime friends, church, a softball team, a couple of hobbyist groups, and a volunteer board, and your half dozen colleagues you were randomly assigned to work near can seem rather superfluous. On the other hand, you take a bunch of young people straight out of college, collect them from around the country and the world, drop them in a new city without any social network, lean on them to work 50, 60 hour weeks, and suddenly socializing with your coworkers becomes very important, especially if you're single, not very religious, and not very outgoing. The alternative is complete isolation and sad phone calls with friends and family thousands of miles away.
    - Konnstann 7y ago
      Man, this really resonates with me, basically my situation right now. I love my job and my colleagues, but I basically have no close friends outside of work in my city since moving.
      - saalweachter 7y ago
        One piece of advice is to not focus on making close friends. They're important, and it's really nice having some nearby, but it's not really any easier to make a new close friend than to start any other long-term relationship. Instead, just focus on (a) meeting as many people as you can bear and (b) establishing membership in a few groups with regular activities. The latter is more straight forward, and can accomplish the former. There are lots of options: signing up for a sports league, taking classes (art classes, exercise classes, continuing education classes, whatever), going to a board games meetup group, joining a volunteer organization, join a church (or whatever) if you're even mildly religious. Friendships, like all relationships, are built on shared interests and repeat interactions. You can also meet a lot of people without joining any groups, although it's easier if you're the sort of naturally sociable person who can strike up a conversation with anyone you're around for more than two minutes. Besides the obvious (go to places there are people, talk to them), or the "run for political office" strategy (it gives you a reason to go and introduce yourself to a few thousand people in your area), there's also the reverse strategy, where you establish a routine. Pick a few activities to do yourself, and do them on a regular, predictable basis in public. Go for a walk or a run every day at the same time, on the same route. Go read at the library or a park a coffee shop at the same time every week. Go to a farmer's market every weekend. You don't need to schedule your entire life on a recurring basis, but by just keeping a regular schedule you will make yourself more visible, familiar and approachable to the people around you, and they'll feel comfortable saying "hi" or introducing themselves. While meeting lots of people and joining a few groups can lead to finding a few close friends, it's also a big help in itself in alleviating the isolation which comes with moving to a new place. You'll be surprised at even the difference that just introducing yourself to a couple hundred people makes. Suddenly, everyone around you isn't just one flavor or another of "stranger"; you know their names (or at least, some of them, depending on your memory for names and faces), and they know yours. You've been introduced, so now you can wave or say "hi" or comment on the weather without it being weird.
- astura 7y ago
  You're wrong. I did this for over five years (I was working as the only dev on a project, PM gave me 100% autonomy), it's just fine. Work is for work, not hanging out. I would have liked to work on a team for that project, but not because I needed to socialize. Humans are social, but I socialize outside of work. Very early in my career I was working with other young engineers and I wanted work to be a social place too. I learned from that quickly, there's much too many downsides: you don't get to pick your coworkers so sometimes they end up being not great as "friends," you realize that work relationships are incredibly shallow because no matter how much time you spent socializing once one of you leaves the company you never see each other again, trying to turn the office into social hour interferes with work, it's probably best my coworkers don't see the same side of me as my friends.
  - sethammons 7y ago
    > Humans are social, but I socialize outside of work. I see this sentiment a lot and I don't get it. You are spending more time with your coworkers than anyone else. I'm not saying you should find your best friend in the office, but enjoying your time with coworkers seems like a good thing. Maybe the definitions of socializing are different. I'm not talking about after hours drinks or philosophically debating for hours. I'm thinking chit chat, jokes, having shared strife reaching a common goal, feeling better for having worked with them, and generally enjoying the 1/3 of a day you spend with them. Professional and friendly. It also so happens that the majority of people I work with I would likely make time to see outside of work from time to time. Non-work socializing is different and more fulfilling, but you have much less time to squeeze that in outside of weekends, which are also squeezed for time when you have a family.
- bitL 7y ago
  Throw regular parties at home with people you know outside from work. Don't talk shop.
neuronic 7y ago
What a horrible working style. You can be very productive while being social as well. In fact, the shittiest projects have consistently been those where people don't communicate and communication includes a human factor, starting at the most basic level. Why? Because fundamentally we are social animals and opening up to this circumstance will allow meaningful, project-related communication at a much more useful level when you previously connected at a human level. I find it exceedingly weird when you have next to no interest in the people you work with for 8+ hours every single day.
- golergka 7y ago
  I'm on the same team as you - that's why I can't really work remotely - but let's acknowledge that it's a personal preference. People are different, much more than we can usually imagine. You can't tell another person, whom you really don't know that well, what she can or cannot do; and different projects require different people and different models of communication.
  - neuronic 7y ago
    I acknowledge it, yes. And I should be more thoughtful of people with. for example, heavier levels of introversion than me. A really good setup would likely be something that respects all sides on the spectrum - people who prefer to be quiet and working in solitude should not be judged for it. Neither should people with more social approaches be dreaded by the introverts. That would be ideal. In essence, we need a system that is able to integrate all preferences and make use of them in the most productive way. Thank you for reminding me that I should be more considerate.
    - golergka 7y ago
      It think that we already have this system, it's called capitalism. Different companies have different internal cultures, some are for lone hackers in individual cabinets or remote locations, some favour giant open floor plans with constant communication. That's what culture fit is mostly about for me: most aren't better or worse, they're just different.
mustacheemperor 7y ago
Personally this slides from a near-perfect setup to a completely-awful setup once I need to leave my house and drive to an office (or luxury condo, apparently) to do this, for literally no reason. I'd also reckon a typical remote team probably has more of the routine social interaction some other comments here describe as personally beneficial than this arrangement.

cntlzw 7y ago

Yes, maybe it is just me, but that does sound like a good work environment. I do not call myself socially awkward, but at work, I want to work! Getting stuff done.

_pmf_ 7y ago
Agreed. It's a sign of functioning project management. Excessive team decisions and discussions are a sign of dysfunctional project management.
- sethammons 7y ago
  Decentralized decision making is key to reducing coats of delays on getting things shipped. Teams should be part of the project management, have an understanding of business priorities, and be having discussions and making decisions. This is functioning project management.
dagw 7y ago
I want to work! Getting stuff done. Me too! And I find it much easier and faster to get better stuff done when on a team with smart and creative people rather than locked away trying to solve everything on my own. Working with smart people who know things I don't is inspiring and makes me produce better work, and hopefully they can gain from my areas of expertise. It doesn't even have to have anything to do with socializing per se. I don't need to know about your kids or what you did on your weekend and we don't even have to eat lunch together or go out for beers after work. But for me having someone I turn to and say "Hey can you take look at this thing, I can't get it to work" and having them understand what I'm trying to do and say "Have you considered this different approach, here let me show you" is a key to me getting my best stuff done.
- astura 7y ago
  I don't think anyone is arguing against that sort of team/co-worker interaction.
  - 7y ago

outime 7y ago

> Forming those bonds is what makes people happy to go to work everyday and work hard. No, not really. It depends of your personality. Some people are more than happy doing pure work tasks. It’d be a mistake to think that everyone likes the same environment.

Kiro 7y ago

> Forming those bonds is what makes people happy to go to work everyday and work hard. Definitely not. I want 0 colleagues.

bitL 7y ago

This would be a perfect setup for remote work. Working from Hawaii, near people you love, overlooking some nice bay, working on independent taks. Way more attractive than working at FAANG, squeezed in noisy open-plan offices preventing one from getting those tasks done, then stuck in traffic and paying top prices for a single room with roommates.