4 ms·

And this is exactly why the US domination of the payment industry is so dangerous, why companies like mastercard/VISA need to end, and why maybe sometimes it's

And this is exactly why the US domination of the payment industry is so dangerous, why companies like mastercard/VISA need to end, and why maybe sometimes it's understandable countries like Germany or Denmark have their own card systems or prefer cash. Running all transactions through companies subject to foreign laws makes you subject to those foreign laws. And there is no reason US laws should affect e.g. a Canadian in Canada doing business in Canada with other Canadians. The current situation is extremely unjust, because as German in Germany interacting with other Germans, I'm suddenly subject to US laws on which I can't even vote. Being subject to laws which I can't influence in any way democratically is unacceptable, and needs to end. Either we as society should go back to cash, build our own payment systems to replace the US-based solutions, or end the US hegemony that even allows the US to spread its laws this way.

yeldarb 7y ago
Curious how you feel about GDPR (the EU asserts its authority to bind an American entity with servers in America running a service targeted at American consumers so long as a single EU citizen chooses to visit the site).
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  In theory* In practice if you've got no presence in the EU, what can they realistically do? Extradite over GDPR?
- jpambrun 7y ago
  You could have one GDPR compliant site in the EU and a different international one.. or just block EU. Nobody is infringing on someone else's sovereignty in that case.
  - cpach 7y ago
    Some sites actually do block visitors from the EU. E.g. the Chicago Tribune.
- pilsetnieks 7y ago
  Only inasmuch as it pertains to the data of the single EU citizen. The American entity can do whatever they want with their American consumer data.
skcjdndj 7y ago
In a certain sense, you didn't "vote on" the sanctions, but, when the system works as it should (prior to the current US administration, for instance) these kinds of decisions that affect international infrastructure are made with broad consensus---including the approval of people you _did_ vote for, or at least the approval of other nations whose interests are broadly aligned with yours. This alignment of interests has reduced the transaction costs of building global systems like payments infrastructure, because of the assumption that parties with the technical ability to control their functionality will be constrained implicitly by international norms. I wouldn't dismiss this outright as "hegemony"---it worked well for a long time---but it's natural in the current political context to wonder if assuming good faith from all parties involved will be as reasonable in the coming decades as it was in the past.
- kuschku 7y ago
  Remember that the EU was actively working with Iran to find a solution that works for everyone, while Trump on his own reinstated the sanctions. This argument could have been made in years past, but now, when sanctions can be reinstated by a single mad man instantly, the argument no longer holds.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  You are not following recent (6 months) news, are you. Nothing you write is valid anymore, unfortunately. We didn't want it, but have no say in the matters whatsoever. Maybe this isn't so visible to US person, fed daily with strongly biased US news, but outside world sees this pretty clearly and is darn annoyed. The parent comment is right, we need alternatives that are actually beneficial to (World - US), which is > 95% of the mankind.
helen___keller 7y ago
> Either we as society should go back to cash, build our own payment systems to replace the US-based solutions, or end the US hegemony that even allows the US to spread its laws this way. I think once the initial tech boom ends and good engineering talent becomes cheaper and more abundant, we're going to see a lot of countries building their own systems for the things that governments typically have control over. Exchange of money and proof of identity will probably be highest among those.
RugnirViking 7y ago
"countries like Germany or Denmark have their own card systems or prefer cash"? Denmark is an almost cashless society, and the cards I have from danish banks are mastercard - is there a different card system in Germany?
- kuschku 7y ago
  In the past Denmark used to use Dankort, an entirely local payment system. Often they were used in combination with MasterCard/Visa, but in local stores, only Dankort is used, and the transaction stays in Denmark

yeldarb 7y ago

Curious how you feel about GDPR (the EU asserts its authority to bind an American entity with servers in America running a service targeted at American consumers so long as a single EU citizen chooses to visit the site).

cameronbrown 7y ago
In theory* In practice if you've got no presence in the EU, what can they realistically do? Extradite over GDPR?
jpambrun 7y ago
You could have one GDPR compliant site in the EU and a different international one.. or just block EU. Nobody is infringing on someone else's sovereignty in that case.
- cpach 7y ago
  Some sites actually do block visitors from the EU. E.g. the Chicago Tribune.
pilsetnieks 7y ago
Only inasmuch as it pertains to the data of the single EU citizen. The American entity can do whatever they want with their American consumer data.

skcjdndj 7y ago

In a certain sense, you didn't "vote on" the sanctions, but, when the system works as it should (prior to the current US administration, for instance) these kinds of decisions that affect international infrastructure are made with broad consensus---including the approval of people you _did_ vote for, or at least the approval of other nations whose interests are broadly aligned with yours. This alignment of interests has reduced the transaction costs of building global systems like payments infrastructure, because of the assumption that parties with the technical ability to control their functionality will be constrained implicitly by international norms. I wouldn't dismiss this outright as "hegemony"---it worked well for a long time---but it's natural in the current political context to wonder if assuming good faith from all parties involved will be as reasonable in the coming decades as it was in the past.

kuschku 7y ago
Remember that the EU was actively working with Iran to find a solution that works for everyone, while Trump on his own reinstated the sanctions. This argument could have been made in years past, but now, when sanctions can be reinstated by a single mad man instantly, the argument no longer holds.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
saiya-jin 7y ago
You are not following recent (6 months) news, are you. Nothing you write is valid anymore, unfortunately. We didn't want it, but have no say in the matters whatsoever. Maybe this isn't so visible to US person, fed daily with strongly biased US news, but outside world sees this pretty clearly and is darn annoyed. The parent comment is right, we need alternatives that are actually beneficial to (World - US), which is > 95% of the mankind.

helen___keller 7y ago

> Either we as society should go back to cash, build our own payment systems to replace the US-based solutions, or end the US hegemony that even allows the US to spread its laws this way. I think once the initial tech boom ends and good engineering talent becomes cheaper and more abundant, we're going to see a lot of countries building their own systems for the things that governments typically have control over. Exchange of money and proof of identity will probably be highest among those.

RugnirViking 7y ago

"countries like Germany or Denmark have their own card systems or prefer cash"? Denmark is an almost cashless society, and the cards I have from danish banks are mastercard - is there a different card system in Germany?

kuschku 7y ago
In the past Denmark used to use Dankort, an entirely local payment system. Often they were used in combination with MasterCard/Visa, but in local stores, only Dankort is used, and the transaction stays in Denmark